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Brown, Boundary Control and Legal Principles (1st edition)

Discussion in 'Surveying & Geomatics' started by Dave Karoly, Dec 26, 2016.

  1. Jim Frame

    Jim Frame 6-Year Member

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    What advantages does the 1st edition offer over the 2nd edition?
     
  2. Mark Mayer

    Mark Mayer 6-Year Member

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    Collector value. Supply and demand. There are plenty of the 2nd available. I guess there just weren't as many copies of the 1st printed.
     
  3. Dave Karoly

    Dave Karoly 6-Year Member

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    Brown cites a case I have found before on page 139, Perich v. Maurer 29 Cal. 293 which is an interesting case wherein the Sacramento County Surveyor's testimony is quoted saying the downtown centerline stones are not original. Page 173 in the second edition.

    He also quotes a case on page 128 that I know I've read (in Los Angeles) but he doesn't give a citation for his quote. Page 165 in the second edition.

    The first edition is 275 pages. The second edition is 371 pages.
     
  4. Dave Karoly

    Dave Karoly 6-Year Member

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    I knew something was wrong...the correct citation is 29 Cal.App. 293 (1915). The author/editor of the fourth edition added the year for 29 Cal. 293 which is 1865 but in the discussion of the case the 1878 resurvey is mentioned.
     
  5. Dave Karoly

    Dave Karoly 6-Year Member

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    I'm reading Chapter 9: The Surveyor and His Duties.

    He has mentioned several times that the title policy will mention senior/junior rights...as in is the client's Deed senior or junior presumably to other Deeds in the same parent Tract.

    I've never seen this in a title report.

    Obviously he wrote the book as a part of a Southern California real property professional culture of the professional trifecta of the Attorney-Title Company-Surveyor. I think he was trying to elevate Surveyors from technical to professional status without stepping on other professional toes. This is just my impression.

    His Attorney coauthor mislead him on some things, though, he probably didn't know better. The Attorney had been an Attorney less than 10 years when the book published.
     
  6. Warren Smith

    Warren Smith 1-Year Member

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    Just getting his feet wet. :cool:
     
  7. Retired PLS

    Retired PLS 4-Year Member

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    I have the Third Edition of Boundary Control and Legal Principles and Evidence and Procedures for Boundary Location for sale. Start a conversation and make me a offer.
     

    Attached Files:

  8. Bow Tie Surveyor

    Bow Tie Surveyor 4-Year Member

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    Any examples?
     
  9. Dave Karoly

    Dave Karoly 6-Year Member

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    He writes in several places that establishment doctrines are an unwritten transfer of title which they are not. This is before the landmark case of Ernie vs. Trinity Lutheran Church but they could've referred to Mello v. Weaver, 36 Cal.2d 456 (1950) wherein the court states the agreed boundary doctrine fixes the location of the true boundary as described by the Deeds. It has also been held that Adverse Possession does not transfer title, it does extinguish the title of the record owner and a new title springs forth in the Possessor because they become the only person with any claim to the property.

    Things have changed substantially in the California Courts since then. Up until that time the Court could be expected to make a de novo review of the survey evidence and an independent determination of the law and facts of the case. Then the Appellate Court would review the trial court's finding of law de novo and review the trial court's finding of fact in accordance with the substantial evidence rule which is a more difficult route to reversal at the appellate level. What is happening now is the Surveyors are testifying as experts and the trial court is not necessarily sitting in the seat of the surveyor and doing a de novo review. If there are two conflicting surveys then they make a finding of fact as to which survey is correct on the law and the facts. Determining which survey is correct does not seem to be treated as a finding of law.

    What this means is surveys are not being reviewed on their findings of law at the Appellate level so they won't be reversing on the grounds of an incorrect survey very often if at all. In a relatively recent case I read the appellant's opening brief where the attorney complained the surveyor made an incorrect determination of the law of that boundary. I think the surveyor is correct in that case however this is a concern, and I can sympathize with the attorney, because the trial court's are the final arbitrator on the correctness of a survey and the appellate court is just looking to see if the survey is supported by substantial evidence which is usually the case. Even if there is substantial evidence supporting another boundary location the appellate court won't disturb the trial court's ruling because they view this as the trial court's province which is to resolve conflicts in the evidence and assess the credibility of the witnesses.

    So if I strike the proper Grandfatherly demeanor, white hair, decades of experience and I testify the called for undisturbed original monument yields to the number on my EDM and the inexperienced youngster testifies about finding the monument but is viewed as less credible by the trial court the appellate court will probably not disturb that on appeal unless the appellate attorney is really really good. This incorrect survey conclusion could become fixed by judgment.

    This is why Land Surveyors need to step back from the trees of boundary law and see the forest which generally flows from creation by Deed to establishment on the ground. The establishment doctrines are just tools the courts use to help determine if a boundary has been established. Doctrines such as acquiescence can be applied to facts that aren't commonly found in the published opinions such as non original monuments set by Surveyors years or decades ago and accepted ever since.
     
  10. A Harris

    A Harris 6-Year Member

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    @ Dave Karoly

    "He has mentioned several times that the title policy will mention senior/junior rights...as in is the client's Deed senior or junior presumably to other Deeds in the same parent Tract."

    The Title Company can produce what I call a "chain of title" that contains all the deeds associated with a parent tract. It will consist of a copy of their card files that are usually in their shorthand cryptic version of what the deeds contain with the key information of Grantor, Grantee, property description and date of filing.

    This is not something they include with their Title Commitment and probably only goes out to the Surveyors that ask for a copy.
     
  11. Dave Karoly

    Dave Karoly 6-Year Member

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    Page 239, "A title insurance policy states the order of seniority of Deeds and should be used, if available, as a foundation for a survey."

    Page 240, "A Deed may have a perfect perimeter description of land yet be in error because of the existence of senior rights determinable from an inspection of a title insurance policy."

    Maybe it was a San Diego thing, I don't recall seeing the order of Deeds in the policy itself.
     
  12. Tom Adams

    Tom Adams 4-Year Member

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    I see much higher costs in any first-edition books when I search, it seems. I'm sure the number of copies printed also has a strong bearing on this.
     
  13. Jim Frame

    Jim Frame 6-Year Member

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    Around here the title companies long ago threw out all their paper records and consolidated their scanned data in regional data centers. Chain of title card files probably never got scanned, because by then all the experienced local title officers had retired or been laid off.
     
  14. Dave Karoly

    Dave Karoly 6-Year Member

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    The third edition, in very good condition, arrived today. It appears to be a major revision as compared to the second adding a lot.

    15 bucks.
     
  15. Bow Tie Surveyor

    Bow Tie Surveyor 4-Year Member

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    Is that when it got Robillard-ized? Its been growing ever since.
     
  16. A Harris

    A Harris 6-Year Member

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    I have several original Title Reports and Certificates from the 1960s and prior that were enclosed in a blue linen cover and began with a cover page that was elaborately designed to include the company and underwriter name and bear the name that it was prepared for and a brief description of the property it served.
    That was followed by an index of the content that began with a copy of the patent to the Survey the property was located.
    Then listed in chronological order were the deeds that started the divisions in that patent land and the full content of later deeds including at last the present deed to the property.
    The last page was a simple sketch showing patent deed and the location of all the deeds listed in the binder.
    Title companies ceased to provide that complete product by the 1970s and not much later Title Policies continued to decrease their amount of information and weight of effective insurance coverage.
    By law, they must include what is in the policies they hand out today.
    Like all other forms of insurance, we are at their mercy if we ever need to make a claim.
     
    Dave Karoly likes this.
  17. Dave Karoly

    Dave Karoly 6-Year Member

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    Yes, Robillard and Wilson joined the author list in the third edition which was released in 1986.
     
  18. Tom Adams

    Tom Adams 4-Year Member

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    When you stated that Alibris had the book for a few dollars, I went there and looked. They started selling as I looked. I tried to buy a couple but by the time I got to checkout, it had already sold. You caused a run on the books. I did notice, however that most of them said 1962, but one said "15th reprint". So I am thinking that the supply is much larger than a lot of other first-editions.
     
  19. Dave Karoly

    Dave Karoly 6-Year Member

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    My first edition of BC&LP is the fourth printing, November, 1963. The office copy at work is the fifth, 1965.

    My second (1969), third (1986), and fourth (1995) all appear to be the first printing. Maybe they didn't exactly fly off of the shelves.

    I'm working on obtaining a first edition copy of E&P, I'm not too concerned about which printing.
     
  20. Mark Mayer

    Mark Mayer 6-Year Member

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    My copy of the 1st edition (1962) of E&P is the 4th printing, June 1967.First edition E&P is easy to come by. Right now on alibris under $4. First Edition, 1st printing will be tougher, if you care about that.

    First edition BC&LP is rare, and therefore expensive.

    It seems to me that the differences between more current editions is little more than some slight editing. I suppose it was more much easier to reprint an already typeset book in those days than it was to reset a new edition. Nowadays, correct an errata, add a paragraph or two, ho-hum. Presto. New edition.

    BTW, there are a couple of 1st edition BC&LPs up right now on alibris in the $100/copy range.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2017

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