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Which survey marker takes precedence?  

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bigtrees
(@bigtrees)
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July 11, 2018 11:51 am  

A piece of property was originally surveyed in 1872 as part of the government land office / PLSS program. A 40 acre tract (government lot #4) was identified on the GLO survey. The section corner was set. Dots are visible on the GLO survey showing some subdivided parcels within the section containing the subject property.

A 1972 survey shows the section corner at the northwest corner of the property (6" concrete monument). It also shows a 6" concrete monument at the southwest corner of the subject property. The surveyor put a note stating that the concrete monument was at the incorrect location and the surveyor set a new post 60" east in what he calls the correct location.

I have located the 6" concrete monument that the 1972 survey says in the wrong location. I have not located the steel post that he said was in the right location.

Which post sets the corner of the property? The 6" concrete monument that the 1972 survey says is in the wrong location or the not-yet-located steel pipe that he claimed to be the correct position?

The 6" concrete monument has no identifying markings on it.

 


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Daniel Ralph
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July 11, 2018 12:45 pm  

This sounds like a test question albeit poorly crafted, and I am not going to get sucked into it except to say there is not enough information given, and what kind of surveyor uses inches in that type of situation.  

 

 

Dan Moehrke, PLS


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Tim V. PLS
(@tim-v-pls)
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July 11, 2018 12:47 pm  

More information needed but my 1st question is: Which one more closely matches the GLO survey?


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bigtrees
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July 11, 2018 12:48 pm  

No, it's not a test question. It's real life. I can provide a screenshot of the 1972 survey where the surveyor found the concrete monument and noted that it was incorrect, and showed that he set the post in the correct location at 5.4 (caught me there) feet away.

I agree there isn't enough information, but I don't know where to go to get the extra info that would make this simple. The only place that might shed light is the 1872 survey's field notes but they aren't readily legible.

Please share what you do know.


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bigtrees
(@bigtrees)
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July 11, 2018 12:51 pm  
Posted by: Tim V. PLS

More information needed but my 1st question is: Which one more closely matches the GLO survey?

For the purpose of this thread, let's say that the not-yet-located 1972 steel post matches the GLO survey data. I haven't field checked to be sure, but am assuming the 1972 survey was done accurately.

I'm just not sure what to think about the 6" concrete corner. Clearly it was put in that spot for a reason and someone at some point, over 50 years ago, thought that it seemed like a nice location.

In the years since, it appears that the landowners have accepted the concrete corner as the property corner location, as a logging road was built on top of (i.e., not next to) where the not-yet-located steel post was set. The neighboring property owner is the state.


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Scott Ellis
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July 11, 2018 12:59 pm  
Posted by: Daniel Ralph

This sounds like a test question albeit poorly crafted, and I am not going to get sucked into it except to say there is not enough information given, and what kind of surveyor uses inches in that type of situation.  

 

 

I use inches for property corners, Culverts, Fence Post. A 6" concrete monument sounds better than a  half foot diameter or a fourth of foot radius concrete monument. 


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Scott Ellis
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July 11, 2018 1:01 pm  

What did you find at the other corners and the adjoining tract corners?


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thebionicman
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July 11, 2018 1:03 pm  

Correct is an identity, not a distance. Trace the pedigree of the monuments to see if either connects to the original corner..

CFedS, PLS ID-OR-WA-UT-NV


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bigtrees
(@bigtrees)
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July 11, 2018 1:06 pm  

Here is a snippet of the survey that was done in 1972. It shows the concrete corner, that has been located, and the set post, that has not been located. I have no other information except for the GLO survey that was done in 1872 which doesn't really add much information. I cannot read the field notes.

My question is - is the concrete corner that was disregarded in 1972 the property corner? Or the post that the surveyor set?

survey


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MightyMoe
(@mightymoe)
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July 11, 2018 1:43 pm  

The N1/16th common to two Sections I'm guessing, that should be a corner with excess or deficiency heading into a north township line. So do the two monuments (6" concrete and 1972 S.P.) "fit" north and south to the correct prorated position? Do you have original controlling corners? Sounds like the NW Section corner is a 6" concrete monument.

Does the I.P. fit the correct prorated position north-south?

Why reject the 6" concrete post for the 1/16th but accept one for the Section corner?

The state is to the west?

My guess is that the state set the concrete posts.

 

 


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bigtrees
(@bigtrees)
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July 11, 2018 1:55 pm  
Posted by: MightyMoe

The N1/16th common to two Sections I'm guessing, that should be a corner with excess or deficiency heading into a north township line. So do the two monuments (6" concrete and 1972 S.P.) "fit" north and south to the correct prorated position? Do you have original controlling corners? Sounds like the NW Section corner is a 6" concrete monument.

Does the I.P. fit the correct prorated position north-south?

Why reject the 6" concrete post for the 1/16th but accept one for the Section corner?

The state is to the west?

My guess is that the state set the concrete posts.

 

 

I'll try my best to answer your questions.

Yes, there is a section line at the north/south boundary shown on the survey snippet above. There is not an east/west section line shown on the snippet (it is located 1320 feet north of the snippet). The steel post does not match up with any other section line (including the section to the north which is offset due to curvature of the earth.)

Yes, the NW corner is a section monument.

I do not know why the concrete post was rejected as the corner. I thought that surveyors couldn't reject corners that were in the wrong location - once set and agreed to by all parties they become the actual location of the corner.

I can write to the state and see if they have any unrecorded surveys of their land.

 


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MightyMoe
(@mightymoe)
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July 11, 2018 2:52 pm  

Have you located the W1/4 corner? Is it an original? Why do you say the NW corner is a section monument if it's a 6" concrete unmarked post? That can't be what the 1872 GLO set.


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