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JERRY ATTRICK
Posts: 196
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(@jerry-attrick)
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Joined: 8 years ago

Regardless of which monument is senior, what I see is one guy never bothered to dig a hole.

JA, PLS SoCal

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StLSurveyor
Posts: 1561
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Joined: 7 years ago

pull them all out and set your bar and move on...

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Mike Marks
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(@mike-marks)
Joined: 9 years ago

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Posts: 483

Around here (recording PLSS State) "pull them out" is frowned upon, although permitted if you file a ROS or corner record showing  what you found, where you found it and why you destroyed it.  Personally, I have never destroyed a monument or suspected monument, of record or not; rather I note the B&D from the true corner (where I set my monument), description of the monument, record reference if available, and a "not accepted" note.  I am humble enough to realize I could be wrong and the two bit rebar may be correct if proven subsequent 😲, and may control distant boundaries not salient to my survey.

I leave ancient monuments with provenance undisturbed (rocks, for example) call them accepted, and set no new monument.  I do not flag up, paint, or otherwise alter an existing monument, except for tagging an accepted rebar with my tag if it has none (State Law).  I'll put up a lathe for the benefit of the client, and a few on line if necessary, but that's it.  Why; tarting up a monument invites vandalism and other evil deeds by casual observers.

I realize you're operating in a different realm (MO, AR, KS, KY) so custom may dictate "pull them out" as acceptable without noting their positions in the record.  Also, I've never seen a corner location like the above example with so many monuments in such a small area;  maybe a few several feet to 50 feet distant is typical for the multi-monument/one corner situation.  It would take chutzpah to not accept an aged monument only a few tenths from your calculated position in a rural survey.  I'll back off from my GPS +- 0.10' uncertainty and say that 1950 survey that placed the monument within a foot of the calculated corner was (and is) pretty damn good work and should be honored.

Edit:  Upon recollection I have pulled dozens of substantial monuments when working for the BLM.  Spent one summer (1970s) doing a dependent resurvey of a remote partial township in Idaho, setting monuments as we resolved the survey in anticipation because some were located a 5+ mile hike from the roadhead. Over the winter the resurvey was not approved by HQ (egregious errors in procedure) so the following season we got to go out, dig up and haul the pipes back to the truck, deface the BTs, etc.  I was not in charge (just a chainman and mule), but it was entirely legal:  "It shall be unlawful for any person willfully and knowingly to remove, destroy, injure, or displace any geodetic control monument or property corner monument except under the authority of the agency which originally set the monument."

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StLSurveyor
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Joined: 7 years ago

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Posts: 1561

I really made that comment as a joke (for the most part). I haven't pulled a pin cushion and probably never will but it frustrates me like everyone else here. And if the survey is of public record, I would most certainly not do that. But I have pulled bent pipes, and irons that have been hit to the tune of 60-90 degrees. I have no problem digging them out to where they spin and I can clearly see where they straighten. Just pull, straighten and replace. 

However, now as a rhetorical question...If the States grant us the right to set, reject corners, why is it so shamed to mention the idea of pulling pin cushions, particularly when the original monument (or monument of record) is there and can clearly be proven? I would think such an action would fall under the "protection of public" when you can prevent unnecessary litigation, or damages to title, etc.

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holy cow
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I cringe every time a non-capped monument is labeled as being worthless.  Look up the surveying regulations for your jurisdiction until you discover the specific date when capping/tagging of survey monuments was first required.  That said, probably 90 percent of the work I must follow for control pre-dates said policy.

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David Baalman
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Joined: 3 years ago

50+ posts
Posts: 72

Also remember the (poor) quality of 40 year old plastic. I've seen plastic caps disintegrate before my eyes from just trying to wipe some dirt off of them to be able to read the stamping. UV light is probably the worst for them, but I've also seen brush fires get them.

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MightyMoe
Posts: 6109
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A nice 3-1/4" aluminum cap on a flared pipe. Pull the pins, tip the new cap upside down, place pins in the pipe set pipe and cap with the iron inside. It will cost way less than arguing back and forth about .04'.

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eapls2708
Posts: 1774
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Get a 12" diameter sonotube, place it around all that metal, dig down so that only a couple inches of each of the various pipes & bars are in dirt, fill with concrete and place a 12" metal plate on top.

Return 10 years later to count all of the punchmarks and chiseled "Xs" that have been added.  Post the pic for those of us who are still around.  Maybe in the Humor section.

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