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“Safety” at it’s worst
Posted by John on December 8, 2017 at 11:18 amFound this a few minutes ago. Supposedly a surveyor. In the middle of a busy 4 lane road. No cones, nothing much besides a vest and his head stuck down a hole.
https://www.reddit.com/r/OSHA/comments/7i9mzl/found_this_guy_digging_in_a_manhole_on_busy_4/
Found this guy digging in a manhole on busy 4 lane road. No cones, no truck, just an orange vest.
byu/GhostalMedia inOSHAwfwenzel replied 6 years, 4 months ago 19 Members · 24 Replies- 24 Replies
You can’t fix stupid but you can sometimes prevent them from getting themselves killed. They say that we are our brothers keeper and I might have stopped and provided some traffic control or gotten him out of the road.
I routinely see people working in the road doing all manner of construction activities with no traffic control other that some disinterested fella pretending to be a flagman.
I have called the DOT and the local police on numerous occassions.
I suspect that what drives what I described is a “BIG FIRM” subbed the grunt work to the lowest cost “small firm”. Well the small firm has to do things against the law and against all OSHA requirements and violate all traffic control to get those prices low.
But the “BIG FIRM” doesn’t care if the “small firm” violates the safety rules cause the “small firm” signed their contract that they would follow all safety procedures. So it is all on the small firm.
I have actually seen a Rodman trying to cross 10 lanes of traffic on the 285 perimeter around Atlanta to get to the center median to get a shot on the median wall where a sign would be placed. I know who he is and he HAD to run across all those lanes to get the shot and then run back. Not just once but dozens of times.
And the company he worked for, a fly by night “stake out guy” was the lowest cost provider to a BIG FIRM.
Looks like he’s at a red light, where the light is actually red while he ran out there… Also looks to not be a manhole (cover is too small) but maybe a hand hole for a water/gas valve? He should absolutely have another person out there with him though.
Heck, dat’s FL/GA lookin’ fer dat dadgum nickel he dropped.
- Posted by: Just A. Surveyor
You can’t fix stupid but you can sometimes prevent them from getting themselves killed. They say that we are our brothers keeper and I might have stopped and provided some traffic control or gotten him out of the road.
I routinely see people working in the road doing all manner of construction activities with no traffic control other that some disinterested fella pretending to be a flagman.
I have called the DOT and the local police on numerous occassions.
I suspect that what drives what I described is a “BIG FIRM” subbed the grunt work to the lowest cost “small firm”. Well the small firm has to do things against the law and against all OSHA requirements and violate all traffic control to get those prices low.
But the “BIG FIRM” doesn’t care if the “small firm” violates the safety rules cause the “small firm” signed their contract that they would follow all safety procedures. So it is all on the small firm.
I have actually seen a Rodman trying to cross 10 lanes of traffic on the 285 perimeter around Atlanta to get to the center median to get a shot on the median wall where a sign would be placed. I know who he is and he HAD to run across all those lanes to get the shot and then run back. Not just once but dozens of times.
And the company he worked for, a fly by night “stake out guy” was the lowest cost provider to a BIG FIRM.
OSHA has ruled on more than one occasion that Prime Contractors (Big Firm) are responsible for the safety practices of the subcontractors. That doesn’t protect the guy in the field if they don’t enforce safety regs but it sure does make them liable if something happens.
@HC
Listen up you hoof and mouth disease carrying bovine (err, your Holiness,) I don’t risk my life like that for a nickel, a quarter maybe, but certainly not a nickel. I think its a picture of one of our prominent posters waiting to retrieve the bag of weed his wife just flushed down the toilet.
It’s still on the big firm to me. Some small firms might bid the project but include the cost of traffic control, so the big firm goes with the lowest bidder who isn’t worried about following OSHA standards.
I see an extremely dedicated employee who hasn’t the resources or training to do his job safely.
- Posted by: Norman Oklahoma
I see an extremely dedicated employee who hasn’t the resources or training to do his job safely.
Bingo. You are probably correct. It’s up to us to train, provide proper equipment and supervise our employees to work safely.
Wonder if he is in intensive care or the morgue.
In a busy intersection, the very center is often the safest place to be. You’re right in everybody’s line of sight. Beyond that, there is usually a small area of piled up road dirt marking the few square feet where the straight though lanes aren’t and just outside of the middle of the arc of the path of left turning vehicles.
It’s often quite a bit safer because of the visibility from all directions than it is to be set up on or near a curb return. I’ve seen many more close calls where the instrument or target is set up on a curb return than I have relative to a setup at the center of an intersection. Someone approaching the intersection to make a right turn is intently watching for a break in oncoming traffic in the crossing street (looking to his or her left) and not paying any attention to what or who might be on the corner to his or her right.
Even so, some drivers tend to daydream and not really see what’s right in front of them unless it’s significant enough to possibly damage their car. Not only does that guy need his vest, but at a minimum, he needs several cones surrounding his immediate work area. Ideally, he would also have a coworker standing next to him as a spotter and to make eye contact with some of the drivers to make sure they snap out of their daydream.
A party chief who worked about an hour south of here was killed last year in a similar situation. He was by himself and had pulled over to check a centerline mon in a mon well. This was on a rural road, but a fairly busy one. As I understand it, the mon well was near the top of a small rise, so a person on their hands and knees, digging the muck off the top of the cap in a mon well would be mostly hidden by that rise to drivers coming from one direction. And that’s just what happened. He wasn’t seen by the driver until the car was almost on the surveyor. For whatever reason, the vehicle, rather than steering hard right to avoid hitting the surveyor, was a little over the centerline and hit him straight on.
That surveyor had no cones, no signs, and no coworkers watching traffic. Like the guy in the photo, he just went out “for a minute” to inspect the monument.
Sometimes it’s not enough to have proper signage and plenty of cones and a bright vest. During my 2nd year of surveying, I was running the transit (yep, transit – my eyes were good enough back then I didn’t even need the magnifier for the vernier), and was set up on centerline of a lightly used rural road right at the top of a rise. It was a wiggle in point between a section corner and a quarter corner with the location chosen for visibility in both directions. We had 4’x4′ signs set up a quarter mile in each direction, and I had about 8 cones around me.
This little car comes tooling up the road. Naturally, I watched it with one eye while checking or giving line with the other. Half mile away, didn’t give him much thought. Passes the sign at a quarter mile, still going a bit fast. He’ll see me and slow down. About an eighth of a mile away and still not slowing down. He’ll slow down any moment. About 100 yards away. The #@!(@% ain’t slowing down, but he has to see me. Thirty yards away. Oh $#!*, he doesn’t see me!
I dove out of the way just as he sent the first cone flying. I hit the dirt and rolled to look back just in time to see the transit, about 8 feet up with the legs pointing to the sky, and to watch it land, still with the legs above it.
Miraculously, the transit survived with a bent knob stem to the vertical fine adjustment, but was otherwise intact. Also seemed to be in good working order with the recent horizontal and vertical adjustments still showing to be good by a quick double centering exercise.
The driver turned out to be a high school kid who had just got out of football practice and was on his way to his girlfriend’s or an after school job or some such thing he was preoccupied about. While I was busy checking the instrument, my chief, after determining that the driver wasn’t hurt, proceeded to scare the crap out of him by telling him how many thousands of dollars it might take to replace the transit (OK, he exaggerated a little, but it was warranted and helped to achieve the desired effect) and that he might have the kid arrested for reckless driving and a few other felonies and misdemeanors. The kid didn’t quite pee himself, but I’m sure it was close. I was calmly told that if there is ever a next time, I had better grab the instrument as I dive out of the way and make sure that it lands on me rather than the other way around.
Because no one was hurt and there was only minimal damage to our equipment, and to the car, this situation turned out rather comical. But had I not been watching that car as he approached, it could have been a very different story.
Always, always, ALWAYS pay attention to the traffic (road or construction site) around you. Drivers on the road aren’t always aware of their surroundings. Neither are heavy equipment operators, especially scraper drivers. If their not high, they’re hung over.
Surveying procedures have changed over the last twenty years to the point I cannot remember the last time I carried an instrument out in traffic to occupy a point, other than a reflector or rover just to get a shot.
In my humble opinion there are two potentially troubling realities about rooting around in the pavement nowadays under traffic:
1. I had only one employee that could even remember working in traffic, the rest were clueless and needed some heavy direction and supervision IF they got out there.
2. 90% of the drivers I see all have their eyes glued to their IPhone and are oblivious to anything in the road that might require them to drop the damned thing for one second and operate their motor vehicle responsibly.
Things such as these make me really hesitant to put anybody (including me) out in traffic.
More scare of cars than snakes, hogs or bears combined. the latter grouping is more predictable.
Much of the horizontal survey control in Seattle is found at street centerline intersections which allows for cars to squeeze by on either side of you if you are organized, quick and time the lights properly. I am finding that with the proliferation of bike lanes, these points are now in the middle of lanes. Couple that with traffic islands that are landscaped obscuring the monuments, its is not as easy as it used to be.
I first saw the OP photo last night on redit (r/Surveying) where some of the comments (about us in general) were very-very funny.
- Posted by: Daniel Ralph
I first saw the OP photo last night on redit (r/Surveying) where some of the comments (about us in general) were very-very funny.
Where’s the link to reddit?
If in the unfortunate position of trying to obtain inverts in a busy intersection we do it at around 3am with two trucks equipped with enough blinking led lights to blind anyone that even comes close.
It??s a very rare occasion that we do this but sometimes you have to, and I hate it. As a side note law enforcement doesn??t mind and usually stays with us until we are finished. It usually takes about 10-15 min to measure all the inverts.
Right Andy, two d’s. Reddit
Go to your Reddit app and type in the subreddit r/Surveying and you should find yourself there. You will have to scroll down a little way to find the post. I didn’t put the link in because some of the Reddit language is not family friendly. But often clever and funny.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Surveying/
I’m just one of those evil GIS people. Bwah-hah-hah! Seriously, I do coordinate systems and transformations at Esri.- Posted by: eapls2708
In a busy intersection, the very center is often the safest place to be. You’re right in everybody’s line of sight. Beyond that, there is usually a small area of piled up road dirt marking the few square feet where the straight though lanes aren’t and just outside of the middle of the arc of the path of left turning vehicles.
Cone off that little square of debris in the center and watch drivers do all kinds of crazy maneuvers instead of driving as normal and avoiding the area as they do every day.
- Posted by: Shelby H. Griggs PLSPosted by: eapls2708
In a busy intersection, the very center is often the safest place to be. You’re right in everybody’s line of sight. Beyond that, there is usually a small area of piled up road dirt marking the few square feet where the straight though lanes aren’t and just outside of the middle of the arc of the path of left turning vehicles.
Cone off that little square of debris in the center and watch drivers do all kinds of crazy maneuvers instead of driving as normal and avoiding the area as they do every day.
On smaller streets and in intersections of side streets, I completely agree. Although you leave equal amounts of space on each side of the ring of cones, and plenty of room for them to get around you on the correct side of the street, nearly half lose any sense they might have had and go around on the opposite side of the street and into oncoming traffic.
At larger intersections, where there are multiple lanes coming from each direction, I’ve never had anyone try to go past me on the wrong side. In those intersections, it’s only the left turn lanes that are close to being affected. It would take a real special kind of stupid for a driver to think they needed to go around that ring of cones in the very center when they have nearly 100 feet on the correct side between coned area and curb. Although I don’t doubt that there are drivers just that special, I haven’t had the misfortune of dealing with them in over 3 1/2 decades of surveying.
My theory is drivers go around the wrong side because they are placing themselves, in the driver’s seat on the left side of the car, as far away from the obstacle as possible.
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