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Pipes are round…
Posted by not-my-real-name on February 15, 2020 at 12:00 amAfter finding this long-buried artifact I asked myself this question. Can a pipe be anything other than round shaped? The photograph may not be a good representative of its section, but it is rectangular and measures 0.10 feet by 0.05 feet.
The answer: It is not a pipe. According to Google it is a tube.
A tube may be round, rectangular, squared or oval hollow in section, while pipes are only round.
Also, tubes are measured by the outside diameter and wall thickness.
a-harris replied 4 years, 1 month ago 11 Members · 32 Replies- 32 Replies
Here is a top view that shows the rectangular section of the tube better. The flagging was done by another and was found on the artifact at this location.
Historic Boundaries and Conservation EffortsI have quite a selection of both pipes and tubes that no longer display the same cross-section as when they came from the factory. Nothing to do with surveying. Everything to do with very displeased cattle being expected to stay or go where humans want them. Getting between said cattle and said pipes and tubes is not a recommended practice. 😯 😯 😯 😯 😯
I have found many pipes that the end of which is on top does not come close to what is being called for from various reasons of abuse and weathering effects.
Digging deeper the object begins to more resemble what was called for.
I have seen the female end of a sucker rod being mistaken for a 1in pipe many times and many hinge pins being mistaken for bolts and tailpipes being called 2in iron pipes and other various motor parts, the most interesting was an extended spigot from a water pump that may have looked like a pipe and was so far away from the actual pipe marking that corner.
When I am in absolute doubt of what kind of rod something is because of its abnormal shape, I call the object an iron bar.
Once I found myself in court and the opposing attorney kept on the subject of a monument that I had found that the other surveyor did not find. The other surveyor did not find it because it was a mile away from our project and he did not look for it. It marked the location of the southeast corner of the Headright and what everyone was arguing over was the location of the north boundary of that Headriight. The northeast corner monument was in place and in agreement to everyone and on record as so and what was missing was the indenture corner monuments along the north boundary and the northwest corner of the Headright and this Headright was the senior and thereby held control of the surrounding Headrights. The opposing attorney did his best to get me to change my mind about my calling such a hunk of metal an iron bar. He kept on the subject for what felt like forever, hitting me from every direction he could as to why I called it an iron bar. Dozens of my answers were either YES or NO as he was asking specific questions whether it was a pipe or a rod or a tube or an axle or a driveshaft or a tpost or something other than an iron bar. I finally told him that when I can not clearly identify what I’ve found and when I know that it is made of iron that I call it an iron bar. He also kept ignoring the fact that I had called it an iron bar found in the middle of a rock pile that fit very reasonably to all the remaining accessories being called for in the original Survey field notes. It does help to know how to reconstruct the missing legs of Headrights, which I have found out that no attorney I’ve ever met has a clue how to.
Anyway, you really never know exactly what you have found when you can not identify the damaged end of an object until you have made your measurement location and then proceeded to dig the whole thing up and wash and clean it to inspect and see what you have actually found.
0.02
I just get descriptive:
Fd 1/2″x2″ rectangular pipe, w/ 1/16″ thick walls, 4″ dp, in rk pl. 1.2n & 4.7 e to FC, n &e. Set #4 rev w/ rpc inside, and flush w surface.
I like the data collector from javad. It allows 250 or so number of characters of note.
N
@nate-the-surveyor are you joking? I checked the survey slang dictionary and couldn’t find the meaning to any of this. A rectangular pipe is a tube to be grammatically correct. I would skip the thickness part in my description and just give the nominal dimensions.
Historic Boundaries and Conservation Efforts@a-harris Yes, the top of the tube in the photograph may have been mangled by the hammer or whatever drove it into the ground. That is why I excavate below the damage and measure the section with a caliper.
When I am uncertain I always find that a little research will lead to an apt description. In that way when another person finds it, that person can be assured the object is the same. I find that effort to be better than simply calling everything a pin or a bar.
Historic Boundaries and Conservation Efforts@a-harris I can see how an attorney would be confused by an object that is not described precisely, but is imagined to be the called for object in a description based on it’s position. For example if I park my car in a parking lot and later leave that parking space we may assume another car may occupy the same space. However, one cannot conclude it to be the same car based on position alone. I try to measure precisely and expect to be as precise in the descriptions of object I uncover as well.
Historic Boundaries and Conservation EffortsIts just what I’d put into the data collector.
It’s saved my bacon too.
I have had trouble though with “9/16″ rebar” though. Found later that it was a 5/8″ rebar, and that due to salt and rust, the top end had a reduced size!
N
- Posted by: @not-my-real-nameI checked the survey slang dictionary and couldn’t find the meaning to any of this.
I would hope this is the notes taken in the field, and not the description on the plat, where it would not be acceptable. But it seems fully comprehensible as notes from the field, even with the personal abbreviations, assuming “rev” is a typo for “reb” meaning rebar.
You can find sellers calling a product square pipe, although most square material is called tube. To me, pipe implies an intended use to carry fluid or gas, whereas tube only implies a hollow shape.
. The rocks and rock piles were what were called in the original descriptions.
The attorney kept circling the iron bar because it was more important to his perception as he thought he had found something to pick at and get me to trip myself and suddenly from left field naming the object and possibly taint my evidence and dispute the rock pile.
What he did not realize was that every time he brought the subject up, he was bringing to the evidence that his client’s surveyor never looked for that monument and did not ever look for that monument as it was half a mile walk from the road thru briars and bramble.
I had located the mound years earlier on a survey coming from the south following a well kept boundary using brush hog and disk to maintain.
I knew where the rock pile came from, the iron bar was not that old and probably some leftover iron that some earlier property owner put there and never made its way into any record.
@nate-the-surveyor a reinforcing bar, or rebar in the vernacular has nomenclature based on the diameter. Specifically, they are named by the diameter in eighths of one inch. Hence, a #4 bar is four-eighths of one inch (the fraction is not reduced) and a #5 bar is five-eighths and so on… If the mill marks are still visible that will make it easy.
Historic Boundaries and Conservation EffortsHard to find mill marks, when top of rebar is 14″ deep, in the road.
Salt accumulates in holes…
Sigh…
N
With a former steel mill and major trailer manufacturing business in the vicinity and oil field workers and welders on every corner, there were thousands of people that could quote the size and schedule of pipe, angle iron and square tubing without hesitation.
Like original lumber sizes being smaller and smaller thru the years, ironworks put out all range of sizes of materials that do not fit normal scales.
I for one am not going to mic every iron found and will simply give it an eyeball up to several inches worth and pull out the tape for the larger sizes.
@a-harris It is easy to use a caliper like you would find in a hardware store to get the diameter. After gauging the artifact, I lay it on the ruler for a measurement. There are both inside and outside calipers in my tool box. I hope that my descriptions will help the next person identify the artifact as being the same. That’s just my preference.
Historic Boundaries and Conservation EffortsWell, of course we all know of elliptical, arch pipes. Most of those we encounter in engineering are large, not suitable for a bound. But, many structural “pipes” or tubes need not be round or overly large. Think of the tubing or piping made for bike frames or some car parts, not always round and perfectly useful as a bound. I might simply call it a 2″ arch or elliptical pipe.
@mightymoe You are right, but I’m still calling this artifact a tube 🙂
Historic Boundaries and Conservation Efforts- The short answer is: A PIPE is a round tubular to distribute fluids and gases, designated by a nominal pipe size (NPS or DN) that represents a rough indication of the pipe conveyance capacity; a TUBE is a round, rectangular, squared or oval hollow section measured by outside diameter (OD) and wall thickness (WT), …I hope everyone has a great day; I know I will!
- Posted by: @dougie
A PIPE is a round tubular to distribute fluids and gases,
Since gases are fluids, there seems to be some redundancy here
At the end of the day it is most important the words on the paper tell the reader a conplete and correct story. Sometimes that means using common language as opposed to technically correct jargon. Would you rather read 3″ tube or 3″ x 3″ square pipe?
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