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Norman Oklahoma
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I see nothing particularly wrong with your original legal. Moreover, I'm not sure what it is about their example that they want you to take notice of.  Hmmm. Could be the area call out. By omitting the words "more or less" after the area recital you make the area controlling. But then you call out several monuments as controlling.  Could be a conflict there.

One thing I noticed about legals in Oklahoma is that reference to the particular meridian, Indian or Cimmaron, is often omitted. Which is fine, I suppose. If you know the County there can be only one meridian being referred to. 

A comment - you make reference to a PK nail. Which is fine if the object is indeed a PK and not a Mag.  I regard the distinction as significant because, among other reasons, it is indicative of the age of the monument. Most PKs are 15 years old or more, no Mag can be much older than that.

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aliquot
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You are the licences surveyor. You should not allow an unlicensed title company employrr tell you how to write you land descriptions. 

All the information they are asking you to leave out is critical to locating the boundary for as long as it exists. If you can't record a survey it needs to be in the land description.

This reminds me of the old Alaska saying, "happiness is a Texan going home with an Okie under each arm."

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Andy Nold
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Posted by: aliquot

You are the licences surveyor. You should not allow an unlicensed title company employrr tell you how to write you land descriptions. 

That's not the reality in this situation. The revised description is adequate to identify the parcel on the ground and makes the title company happy, which makes the multi-million dollar client happy, which makes the boss happy. If they were asking me to do something that I knew to be wrong, I would certainly stand my ground.

 

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paden cash
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Posted by: Andy Nold

.... The revised description is adequate to identify the parcel on the ground and makes the title company happy, which makes the multi-million dollar client happy, which makes the boss happy. If they were asking me to do something that I knew to be wrong, I would certainly stand my ground.

The hyperbole is mine.  And that is an important point.

In Oklahoma the Minimum Standards land surveyors adhere to require the body (excluding the preamble) of a newly created metes & bounds parcel to include the name and date of the preparing surveyor.  Title companies (and others) bitch and moan and "just want the description" without any frills. 

In such a case I will not remove that info from my survey description and provide them a copy of the State Statutes that require this info.  I'm more than happy to provide them a Word doc they can gleefully hack up 'til their eyeballs fall out...but I won't edit that info from my original document.

I guess the intent of the statute was to give a trail of whom and when a parcel was created.  Not a bad idea since we are not a recording state...and very little of that info makes into onto the face of conveyance documents simply because the title companies feel it's unnecessary. But as Andy noted; the Golden Rule applies here:  Whomever has the gold, rules.

 

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aliquot
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Posted by: Andy Nold
Posted by: aliquot

You are the licences surveyor. You should not allow an unlicensed title company employrr tell you how to write you land descriptions. 

That's not the reality in this situation. The revised description is adequate to identify the parcel on the ground and makes the title company happy, which makes the multi-million dollar client happy, which makes the boss happy. If they were asking me to do something that I knew to be wrong, I would certainly stand my ground.

 

Your compromise description is adequate (although I think a bearings statement should be added). I was referring to the title company example, which was not. You are right though, no reason to be stubborn when a compromise can be worked out that makes all parties happy.

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Andy Nold
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Posted by: aliquot
 
Your compromise description is adequate (although I think a bearings statement should be added). I was referring to the title company example, which was not. You are right though, no reason to be stubborn when a compromise can be worked out that makes all parties happy.
You are right on that one. I usually put the metadata for the bearings, distances and coordinates in the second paragraph and just noticed this morning that I had forgot to put that. But, it was on page 1 as mentioned previously.

 

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holy cow
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Normal description.  Have read thousands like that.

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A Harris
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It relates to writing a DOT property description as compared to writing normal beginning at some monument that is of record and progrssing to describe everything as close as can be related in words as to what the math is and describing what is along and crossing the boundary and a detailed wording of monument, references and withness and adjoinging owners, lot numbers and all that "jazz".

Frustrating and being 180° from is proper and headed for what the Client tells us to say.

0.02

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Dallas Morlan
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The title company example would not fly in Ohio.  Each county has adopted and published minimum description standards that are based on, and usually more restrictive than, Ohio law (Ohio Revised Code) and Ohio rules (Ohio Administrative Code).  Ohio Department of Transportation County Conveyance Links page provides an index of county standards.  OAC 4733-37 was adopted by the license board as minimum practice standards for Professional Surveyors. 

The following is from the Ohio Administrative Code:

4733-37-06 Descriptions.

(A) When a surveyor is called upon to prepare a new description, either to replace an existing description which is inadequate or to create a new piece of property, said description shall include the following items:

(1) Sufficient caption so that the property can be adequately identified.

(2) A relationship between the property in question and clearly defined control station(s).

(3) The basis of the bearings.

(4) A citation to the public record of the appropriate prior deed(s).

(5) The surveyor's name, Ohio registration number and date of writing and/or survey.

(B) A metes and bounds description shall include, in addition to paragraph (A) of this rule:

(1) A description of the boundary monument used as the initial point of the description.

(2) A series of calls for successive lines bounding the parcel, each of which specifies:

(a) The intent in regards to adjoiners or other existing features.

(b) The direction of the line relative to the direction of the basis of bearing.

(c) The length of the line.

(d) A description of the boundary monument (or reference monument) and whether found or set to identify the end of the particular line.

(e) All curved lines shall indicate the radius, central angle, curve length, chord bearing, chord length and direction of the curve.

(f) The reported boundary data shall meet the closure requirements of paragraph (C) of rule 4733-37-04 of the Administrative Code.

(3) The area of the parcel.

(C) Descriptions other than metes and bounds descriptions may be a reference to a recorded survey plat or a parcel on a recorded survey plat and shall include sufficient and adequate legal and technical wording so that the property can be definitely located and defined.

(D) A statement shall appear indicating that either: the description was made in accordance with a recent survey and the date thereof, or the description was made based on a previous survey, of a certain date, and date of description, or the description was not based on a survey.

(E) When the surveyor knows a new description is to be used for a fee transfer, the surveyor shall base the description on a current or updated survey of the property.

R.C. 119.032 review dates: 05/09/2014 and 05/09/2019
Promulgated Under: 119.03
Statutory Authority: 4733.07
Rule Amplifies: 4733.20
Prior Effective Dates: 05/01/1980, 11/01/2003

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