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NCEES Votes to Convert PS exam to Computer Based
Posted by NonTangent on September 1, 2012 at 3:19 amJust came across this.
http://ncees.org/About_NCEES/News/News_Pages/Actions_at_2012_annual_meeting.php
Survey_Sid replied 11 years, 7 months ago 5 Members · 7 Replies- 7 Replies
Not To Worry Til 2016 Or Later
The FE and FS exams conversion will not be complete until 2014 and that started in 2010.
NCEES also wants to gain some experience with the computer based FE/FS before taking the next step.
There are 17 different PE exams to convert so the PS may not have high priority. That is further complicated by the fact that the FE and PE for Civils (as does the Mechanical) has a common morning session with a choice of multiple afternoon sessions. Civil and Mechanical pretty much top the list in exam taker numbers. In number of takers the PS is low. However some of the PS exam will be connected to Civil questions plus the separate FS exam is a good headstart.
A question not yet answered is if the PS goes to an 8 hour test, with state specific tests being separate.
I see that as less of a problem in the future. First experience only candidates will dwindle in the Surveying field, leaving Saturday as an opening for State specific. Typically the PE/PS has been on Friday with the FE/FS on Saturday. That allowed large groups of students to be accomodated on Saturdays. Under most laws the FS must be taken before the PS. That meant in some states an experience only candidate taking both tests was committed to two separate exam periods. That is the case with the “New” PA law. Those sitting under the old law were allowed to take the PS on Friday before the FS on Staurday. When I say “New” law in PA I believe the cutoff date for experience to begin and/or education to end was 1191/1992. We are now 20 years past that date but it is still a factor.
Secondly the NCEES intends to do away with the single weekend concept for all exams in 2014. It would make sense to minimize the numbers of computers to do all civils in one weekend, all mechanicals in another and all the rest on a third.
Paul in PA
Not To Worry Til 2016 Or Later
My son, a CE, just took the CA LS. Both Fed and State were computer based but administered on different days by different companies which equaled different rules regarding, calculators allowed, clothing allowed, number and size of boxes of ref books allowed. The latter will become a moot point as both are going to no books allowed tests.
The interesting part is 6 examinees can be taking the LS test at the same time, same location but each is taking a different exam.
I personally am not in favor of no ref book tests. The true measure of a professional is his ability to know where to find the correct information not what he has memorized or his ability to eliminate the wrong answers on a multiple guess test. Surveying has multiple disciplines all rolled into one and it would take a very unique individual to be 100% proficient in all LS fields.
Recently the CE’s of CA have required that all CE’s be certified in SWPP’s before they can issue one. Interesting that only one company developed and administers the lectures and exams which must be recertified every 2 years (cost is ~$500 plus lost wages). I mention this as maybe that’s were the no book multiple guess tests are headed. To be a full service surveyor you will have to take separate tests on the various fields of surveying. This has already created a cottage industry of SWPP certified CE’s now charging 10 or more times the previous cost to prepare the SWPP.
Doesn’t help the industry or the public but makes politically connected companies rich.
Not To Worry Til 2016 Or Later
lndbtchr,
The “fed” test is not computer based yet, which is why NonTangent posted this topic. NCEES voting members approved the national PS exam to go CBT as soon as feasibily possible, but not sooner than 2015. There is a very good chance that the PS exam will move to CBT before the PE exam(s) primarily for the reasons that Paul in PA mentioned. Your son took the paper PS exam last April.
The “CE’s of CA” did not implement the SWPP certification process. State Water Resources Control Board did and in fact many of the practicing CE’s in CA are not in favor of some one other than the licensing board from establishing engineering-related practice certifications. ACEC – California is against it and is sponsoring legislation for the second time to modify the requirement.
Not To Worry Til 2016 Or Later
I guess it’s a fine line there. If you mark a box on something read by a computer to me is computer based. I guess the diff is the reading the question off paper vs tv screen.
It doesn’t say much for the board when a company can circumvent the board and have a sub agency set PE or LS rules and certifications. It does show how out of control and bought and paid for these mini and many dictatorships created in the name of State govt; State Water board, CARB, AQMD, etc really are.
Modification – should be elimination.
In the past the pass/fail score has been determined by a statistical review of that tests test results.
In the new testing where 5 or 6 or more candidates are taking different LS exams how are the pass/fail scores going to be determined. There is no historical data to base a score on.
And how equal will the tests be in terms of subjects covered in relation to the weighted value of the question(s).
Too many secrets these days.
Do I know for sure that different candidates will be taking different tests at the same time, No. But when I mention it it is never disputed by those who would know, they do nitpick other parts of my statements. Anyone who has taken the API worksafe tests knows that when you fail a section you can immediately retake it but the questions are different. I have had 2 employees taking the API test at the same time and they are getting different questions. I would bet the farm that NCEES and CA will take the same road.
Merely Changing The Arrangement Of Questions May Suffice
Also Question 1 may be about a 1.05 acre lot. Question 7 in another test may be about a 1.525 acre lot, with all dimensions changed proportionately. It is the same question, has only 1 correct answer so can be equally weighted.
I doubt you will get to retake any part of this test immediately.
Paul in PA
New FE and FS Exan on computers will not be tested on the same day.
Applicants will qualify and then set up appointment at a testing center to sit for exam.
That way testing can basically run continuously.
This opens up previously used second exam day for longer state specific exam if needed.
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