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MightyMoe
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I got a call for a boundary line adjustment. My client wants to replace a newish fence to the line where the fence was from eight years ago. His attorney says he has AP and can move it and this has convinced his neighbors.

I had to not say anything, the claim of AP is not valid in this case, I broke the section down, re-wrote the deed from sectional descriptions to a metes and bounds describing it along the sectional breakdown lines and the new split which cut through the section, this is what my original client wanted to grant. Then after discussions with my original client we actually went out staked the sectional lines to replace the fence on-line with the new description, which I believe happened.

Anyway, the whole point was to take care of any problems with fence/deed overlaps/gaps. The new owner doesn't like that he "lost" lands. 

Oh well, as long as everyone is on-board with the new line what can go wrong. 

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paden cash
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Keepin' quiet at the appropriate time is an acquired talent. 

Mine came with age.  I'm sure there are folks that were born with that ability, but I wasn't... 😉  

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FL/GA
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@paden-cash

Mine came at age 7 the day I met Sister Francis. 😎 

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paden cash
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@flga

Was she armed with a wooden ruler?

funny nun carrying wooden ruler as a weapon
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FL/GA
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@paden-cash

yep, and 2 backups, one in the chalk holder on the blackboard (are we allowed to say that?) and an emergency backup that looked like a billiard bridge.

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A Harris
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@flga

About that same age, I found out that it does not necessarily have to be a nun that with a flick of their wrist can swat knuckles.

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MightyMoe
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@paden-cash

The urge to but, but, but, is strong sometimes. 

Getting older has helped to stop me. 

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FL/GA
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@mightymoe

gettin’ older’s gonna “help” stop a lot of things. 😉 

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RADAR
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Stacy Carroll
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@paden-cash The older I get, the more I seem to say...

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Jim in AZ
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Moe - you say that you "re-wrote the deed from sectional descriptions to a metes and bounds..." I hope you meant to say that you re-wrote the description - writing a Deed (at least in my State) can only be done by the owner or a judge). Why would you change a fractional description to a metes-and-bounds? I do not believe that I have the legal authority to do this. Title Companies tell me that this would be creating a cloud on the title. Perhaps this is another State by State issue?

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MightyMoe
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@jamesf1

Yes I ment to say description. They were splitting up the land, keeping some, selling off a parcel so a new description was needed. A new line cut through the original ranch description as I noted above. So I wrote a metes and bounds description which partly followed the sectional breakdown, thus trying to eliminate any issue with possession going forward.  

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Take the next step in your career, PPI will get you there

Rover83
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Posted by: @jamesf1

Why would you change a fractional description to a metes-and-bounds? I do not believe that I have the legal authority to do this. Title Companies tell me that this would be creating a cloud on the title. Perhaps this is another State by State issue?

I guess this could be a state-by-state issue - is there case law in Arizona establishing that there can only be a single, immutable description of every single property?

To me that makes no sense. Two descriptions can absolutely describe the same piece of land. There's only a cloud on title, at least relating to the description, if there is legitimate uncertainty about its location. And because it's not the title company's purview to decide whether a description can be placed upon the ground - that falls squarely in our area of practice - they don't get to make that determination.

And if we can place a description on the ground, we can certainly describe that same property, perhaps more clearly than the previous description, particularly if there have been monuments set by previous surveyors and relied upon by landowners, or a road has been punched through, or especially if that description is not based upon an on-the-ground survey and bears little resemblance to the actual lines established and honored from first occupancy.

It's one of those areas that falls under "professional judgment", and cannot be simplified to "never ever rewrite a description". Nor should the answer be "rewrite the current description every time the property is surveyed"...

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MightyMoe
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@rover83

If this was a totally fractional description I would not change it, however it no longer is.

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Jim in AZ
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@rover83 - i'm not sure about Case Law, but it has been the Standard of Practice as long as I can remember. I do know that it is discouraged by Gary Kent with regards to the ALTA/NSPS Standards.

 

If a description can be placed on the ground I see no need to prepare a new description... Monuments relied upon by land owners do not alter the description.

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MightyMoe
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In fact this is how the description begins:

 

lines
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