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All in a days work…
Posted by john-hamilton on February 23, 2019 at 2:08 amHad to bust a path across the ice covered stream (deep, could not stand), and then take cross section shots of the stream bottom. It was tougher getting back, as it turned to slush. Made it through…Tried to get the client to move the section upstream about 200 feet where it was open and shallow, but they wanted it right there…
Didn’t even get my hat wet!
true-corner replied 5 years ago 21 Members · 37 Replies- 37 Replies
2 questions:
1. If it was too deep to stand, how did you stay on station?
2. What does one wear to keep from getting wet and hypothermic?
Easy to stay in one place with the ice surrounding me. I had on a dry suit ($500). It totally covers me from the neck down. I have done stream sections in 5?ø outside temperature and been comfortable. Until I get out of the water and then my hands get cold (gloves, not part of the dry suit)
I treat ice with any kind of current beneath it as a potential death trap. The ice can get eroded in spots from underneath and falling through and getting swept under it is a pretty crappy way to go. You are hard core Mr. JH.
WillyThat right there is stupid as hell. Dry suit means squat when you hit step in a hole and go under water and under the downstream ice.
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Under those conditions if the client wants cross sections you decide where you can do them. No way no how.
I too have two questions.
1. Where was your safety line?
2. Why wasn’t your safety partner closer (I assume they were doubling as a photographer)?
Glad you enjoyed your afternoon!
“Build a fire, turn the angle when I holler good, and there best be a fire blazing when I get back”
Not dangerous (or stupid) at all. It was the only place along the stream that was frozen over, and the ice was very thin. Downstream was a sandbar at the mouth and upstream was about 6 inches deep flowing into this pool. The only reason it was frozen is that it was right upstream of the mouth, and the water had backed up in there. We did about 20+ sections on this creek, and they were all gently flowing. Note that I am of course wearing my PFD.
I have been doing this for almost 40 years, I know dangerous when I see it.
Prepared with the topo shoe and everything.
- Posted by: John Hamilton
Not dangerous (or stupid) at all…
I have been doing this for almost 40 years, I know dangerous when I see it.
If you say so.
I have done more than my share of unusual things in the field. No way would I consider this. Even slow moving water is an incredible force. When you combine the effects of restrictive clothing and submersion, even a short trip under thin ice is a likely death sentence. Tethering to a line above the water won’t help much unless you have that line incredibly taut. It will help with recovering the body, but I usually aim for better results…
As John said, it’s more like slush than ice, just look at the color. No threat of being trapped. Dry suits are made for cold water, in fact there is nothing better he could be wearing for that task. I guess it just depends on how much time you’ve messed around in icy water. I think surveying along a busy road is exponentially more dangerous than what John is doing here. It looks like fun to me but I’ve been know to saw a hole in the ice with a chainsaw and then jump in so maybe I’m not a good judge…
I like the spirit. Be prepared and do what you gotta do to get the shot. Yeah, no survey observation is worth a human life; but then again, a human life with zero risk and perfect comfort isn’t exactly something to aspire to.
John, for the record, I think you are a stud. I regret and apologize for the snotty tone of my post.
You’ll please forgive me as several people where I live have died going through the ice this winter. I know you’re a trained professional and not suggesting ‘hold my beer and watch this.’
WillyI totally agree with Murphy, I feel much less safe working along highways, which I have been doing a lot of recently. Today I had to survey a bunch of targets along I70, and recently had to scan a bunch of bridges on I90. Every Monday I have to run a high accuracy traverse along another section of I70 that is down to one lane each direction (the inside lanes). That makes it sound easy, but the traverse is in the median and the points being monitored are on either shoulder, so i have to cross the single lanes multiple times. The median is too wet and soggy to drive, so we drive the shoulders and have to go out to the median to setup the total station. Fortunately it is an SX10, so once it is setup I can sit in the vehicle on the shoulder and turn angles from there. Takes a lot of time to get a good shot across a single lane of interstate highway due to the slow moving truck traffic.
The latter project is actually very interesting, a mining company is doing long wall mining under the road, so we run mobile lidar once a week. To support that I have to run the traverse each week between points on stable ground at the ends and assign coordinates and elevations each time to the mobile lidar targets. The area being undermined has dropped about 5 feet so far, and there is horizontal movement as well of about 1 foot. Of course that wreaks havoc with the pavement. Big cracks can appear overnight and cause large bumps until they can shut down traffic for a bit and repair it.
- Posted by: thebionicmanTethering to a line above the water won’t help much unless you have that line incredibly taut. It will help with recovering the body, but I usually aim for better results…
Back when I did a lot of climbing in the northwest the saying was that when just two guys rope up it means you’ll never have to die alone.
Years ago I was on site in the South Island, working on a hydropower project. One Sunday I went fishing in the Lake (naturally occurring headwater), from memory harling for land-locked salmon. Caught a couple, released them as they were no more than a couple of pounds each. Then decided to change possi, which entailed getting around a steep cliff, with the easiest route being to wade (shorts and ankle boots) between beaches, through crystal clear water that was up to mid thigh level. I’m sure someone said the water was a constant 10 degrees Celsius all year around, but maybe it was colder than that, even though it was mid summer and the air temp was a daily 25 degrees Celsius. I was in there for no more than two minutes, and no joking, the pain of the cold gave me an overwhelming urge to actually cry, a very odd feeling, and to this day I wonder at the suffering people must go through when the fall in cold water without protection.
John, just another calculated risk surveyors take. I would do same but would not ask someone else to do it for me.
Many times as party chief, it was my job to head into whatever situation with crew looking on and acting as support to drag me back if it was too much to handle.
I’ve waded miles thru waters not over breast deep along Black Cypress Bayou in warm weather and waited until sloughs froze over along Sulphur River to survey across the ice to maintain along the boundary.
We do what it takes or else hand the job off to somebody that will jump in and do whatever it takes.
Worst day ever was staking on US 59 thru Queen City while a Blue Norther was in full force and temps had dropped into the teens with a gale force north wind that was practically blowing us down with ice forming and ground freezing. We were the only people visible and outside doing anything that day. No traffic and no other contractors on site. It was a work or be fired, should have simply gone home, sat by the fire and told the boss to stick it and went solo the next day…………..lessons learned.
Don’t take a risk that you don’t know the outcome before jumping in.
“… I feel much less safe working along highways …” Amen
I am northern cold weather duck hunter spending every fall/early winter breaking ice to get those last northern mallards. Experience and perseverance can keep you safe in tricky situations.
Steve
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