R-8 vs. R-10
Why should I spend several thousand dollars extra to get an R-10?
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We just did a large as built in eastern Idaho. Tons of repetitive shots. I had an R8, the kid next to me had an r10.
I lost about 5 percent productivity fighting radio. He never had a problem. In reviewing the data there was no appreciable difference in quality.
If it were me I would get the r10 just for the better radio reception. Even if the productivity doesn't pay for it the reduced aggravation factor will...
CFedS, PLS ID-OR-WA-UT-NV
Um, an R-10 is the flagship of the Trimble lineup. You should buy one. You need to do SOMETHING with all the cash, you keep in the closet! All that cash is molding!
Surveying is more than a Job----it is a passion to provide a foundation for future generation, that is beyond reproach.
Unless Trimble's pricing has changed the retail prices are only about $2K different, $3K at the most. They may be offering incentives on the R8s that aren't available on the R10 though.
I've only used R8s up to Model 3, but I love the R10. From what I've seen, it does give you slightly cleaner data, but that's only one reason. Here are several more:
- The R10 has a MUCH more robust and durable design, everything about it is better. The housing is a very rugged forged magnesium alloy, the battery system is much, much, better, and the keypad is better - although the one on the R8s appears (in pictures) to be an improvement over the older ones. My only complaint is that the amber lights on the R10 are a lot harder to see in sunlight.
- XFill is great. Anyone who's ever lost radio trying to get a shot in a ditch will appreciate XFill. You can lose radio link for up to 5 minutes without losing your fix. Yes, the accuracy does degrade over that time, but it takes typically 2 - 3 minutes for the degradation to become noticeably significant. And all you need to reset it is to get the radio signal back for a couple of epochs.
- The tilt sensors, when used properly, are also great. You can set up tilt auto measure on a topo job and it will save you time. Get to the point, enter the feature code, and level up - as soon as the receiver senses level it takes the shot and stores it automatically. Another thing we like about the tilt sensors is that the positions are corrected for tilt, and it gives you one more confidence indicator. Lastly, there is the capability to get a shot with the pole tilted as much as 15 degrees. I've had mixed results with this because it involves the magnetometers in the unit and doesn't work well around any kind of electromagnetic interference. But it's a very useful feature under the right conditions.
- The R10 has WiFi, a built in GSM modem, and can even be used as a WiFi hub. It also has a very easy to use Web GUI and almost all configurations can be easily performed using a smartphone or tablet.
- The R10 uses completely different algorithms for resolving the ambiguities than the R8, and reports the accuracies much more reliably. When we first got R10s we had crews who didn't like them because they didn't think they were as accurate. The reality is that they were used to the R8s lying to them in canopy and high multipath environments; the R10 gives you a more reliable set of values.
In a previous post on this subject, my advice was that the R10 is only better if you take full advantage of its capabilities. If you disable the tilt because you find it to be a PITA and disable XFill because you don't trust it, then you're better off saving the $$$ and getting an R8s - it's not like it's not also a great product, it is.
We acquired the R10 last summer and converted our R83 to base units. I was a bit skeptical of any dramatic improvements in accuracy and truthfully I haven't seen any dramatic improvements in that respect, however I have become more appreciative of the new algorithms that do away with the whole business of the fixed/float solution. In the past I've experienced a number of bad fix solutions in and around canopy with R83, enough to teach me to stay on my toes. I don't do a great deal of topo but the tilt auto measure is sweet for doing a lot of the type of work I'm doing locating hundreds of locate marks on a typical job as well as having an independent check on the rod bubble and knowing better when I need to tune it up. The XFill feature really saved my bacon last fall on a job that involved locating 1.5 miles of buried fiber in some very mountainous terrain where I was fighting to get radio the entire time. Could not find a good location to set up a repeater and wasted hours in the effort. Zero cell phone reception so VRS was out. Conventional would have taken days. That was my first real experience using the XFill and I have to say it saved the day. Is it worth upgrading? Just depends on your circumstances but I haven't any regrets.
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get me.
The R-8 is really a good machine, the R-10 is better, and I THINK a bit more accurate and stable, but the difference is slight.
It is easier to carry and work with in the field.
Is it worth it? Not real sure, depends on what you do.
I can say I've had radio issues with the R-8, none with the R-10.
X-fill is useful, and the Tilt also works well when you need it.
As I posted last week, apparently older R10's have a 2G modem, even though they were marketed as 3G (at least on the 12/14 data sheet that I have). Sometime along the way they upgraded the modem and began installing 3G modems in the newer ones. Now, if you don't use the cell modem, who cares, but that is critical to me. I have not yet heard anything from Trimble, hopefully it is as simple as swapping the modem board.
But I agree the R10 is a wonderful piece of equipment.
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One thing I didn't mention above is that the internal transmit radio in the R10 is at 0.5W, whereas the R8s is at 0.2W. Since most people use their R10s as rovers this one isn't as often mentioned but it makes a big difference.
I agree with MightyMoe that the data seems a little cleaner and more stable, but the difference is slight. But I've seen some amazing results with them, and I seem to consistently get slightly better OPUS numbers with them.
When we first got them I had the task of establishing control on two set rods while the other two crew members went and did about an hour's worth of boat work. Since the points were only 500' or so apart, I walked back and forth between them and performed 3 minute observations on them with the pole oriented differently each time. I averaged these measurements, and when we leveled to the instrument point from a TP in a loop that originated at the GPS base point the elevation was different by 0.003'. Lucky? Maybe.
If you're worried about the money, consider buying used. We picked up a used R10 package (base, rover, TSC3 w/ Access, TDL 450, all new cables, cases, rod and batteries) from a Trimble dealer w/ one year warranty for around 32k. That was a year ago, I think they can be had for around 30k now. It's paid for itself many times over. It's incredible the places that thing will fix! But I've never used a 4th generation R8, maybe they're just as good if you don't care for the bells and whistles like Xfill....
Lee D, post: 408572, member: 7971 wrote: One thing I didn't mention above is that the internal transmit radio in the R10 is at 0.5W, whereas the R8s is at 0.2W. Since most people use their R10s as rovers this one isn't as often mentioned but it makes a big difference.
The R10 has a 2 watt internal radio, the R8s a 0.5 watt.