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Overgrown Data Collectors = overkill for woods based boundary surveys
Posted by i-ben-havin on August 14, 2018 at 5:25 amKeeping current with firmware and software is without a doubt the best way to benefit from your investment in GNSS. However, moving forward and keeping current with Trimble Access means having to lug a lovely Windows 10 based desktop computer through the woods while swinging a machete. Been there done that. Now, smaller is better. Does anyone know of anything not Windows 10 (or 7 or 8.1, etc.) based that would be able to efficiently run the R10 and stay current with evolving firmware improvements on the R10? In other words, not just run the R10, but be able to enjoy the same benefits from R10 firmware enhancements TSC7 users will experience? For instance can Survey Controller or Survey Pro run the R10, and by staying current with software updates derive the same benefits from R10 firmware enhancements as up to date Access would? Everything I run is Leica, but having heard so much about the R10 I decided to buy and try one only to learn after the fact that Access 2018 will only run on Windows 10. Before I look for interested buyers for an idle R10, I decided to first try to explore other means of running it. I would be very thankful for any help or ideas.
zammo replied 5 years, 8 months ago 12 Members · 20 Replies- 20 Replies
Access on the TSC-3 drives the R10 just fine
I too am dreading the day that I have to move from tsc3 to tsc7. My sales rep has hinted that in the next year or so Trimble will release a smaller android based data collector. I am waiting patiently, all I do is cadastral/boundary work. I wont ever want a 12in screen.
I used a TSC2 (had two since 2006) for many years, then got a Yuma 2 when I bought an R10 and a V10. One of TSC2’s finally died and the other one was acting up, so I bought a TSC3 last year. Not long after I bought the unit it was left on the truck bumper, traveled 6 miles, and was then run over. After that it worked for a day or two and then failed. It was repaired, now works fine.
We have an SX10, so having a Yuma 2 was good, did not have to buy a new data collector when I got the SX10. I bought a case with strap for the Yuma, that makes hauling it around all day pretty easy, I don’t like it on the pole and most of the conventional work we do (dam deformations) we are only using stakeout prisms, not a pole.
I have been having issues with the Yuma, mainly power/charging, so I took it in for diagnosis/repairs last week. The dealer loaned me a T10 tablet, which I used for conventional work (SX10) for three days last week. It is a bit large, and has some quirks (caps lock, display brightness), and the menus are different, but it worked well. I would definitely get a case and strap if I was going to use it for conventional.
And I was also told that Access 2018 will not be available for the TSC3. Not really a problem, I was still using Survey Controller 12.xx on the TSC2 until recently for total station work.
They should be small enough to strap on your wrist.
and connected to something like this…
Access 2018 it not going to run on a TSC3; even if it could, you’d lose most of the benefit on that screen. Carrying a TSC7 around in the woods is no worse than carrying a TSC3 around, IMO. But if all you’re doing is boundary in the woods you don’t need any of the benefits of Access 2018; you could get a Slate controller, which is basically a beefed up Android phone. If you want the benefits of a full keyboard and Access 2018 you should give the TSC7 a chance; we don’t own any yet but we’ve had the opportunity to put one through its paces for a week and both crews that had it loved it.
Large screens used to be so appealing that I just had to try it. First up was a Leica 7″ CS25 with Windows 7 driving a Leica GS15, then a lighter but bigger screen Microsoft surface. Around this time I was beginning to get into a lot of mining related wetlands delineation work. Weaving a 4 wheeler through the woods, dodging trees all the while fighting and holding on to an oversized data collector finally made me see the folly of what I had been thinking was the ultimate. Getting on and off the 4 wheeler a couple hundred times a day was awkward and tiring too. And, in thicker areas walking and swinging a machete put the mobile computer at risk. With a good hard dose of reality and experience being the best teacher, now if I could find something the size of a wrist watch that would be a winner. For 2 or 3 years my larger controllers have been gathering dust. So, when I came to the realization Trimble would be forcing Access users to go to this monster platform it made me want to hit my head against the desk. I knew Trimble Slate with Access would be able to run the R10, that was going to be the one. Wrong, finding out Slate will not be able to run Access 2018 and beyond, Slate is a dying option, just as TSC3 is. You can only run non supported software for so long, and you quickly start losing out on the benefits of future GNSS firmware enhancements. Ideally, you want both the controller and the receiver to be on mutually supported and complementary systems. I already have a Leica GS18 with a CS20 controller, and that was already bigger than I wanted. Going bigger…see TSC7…was definitely not part of the plan. The primary reason I recently bought the R10 was because of Slate/Access. Seeing Access 2018 and beyond is not for Slate? I dunno. Where does someone who only needs a small controller go? Carlson? Definitely, Leica and Trimble both want to force you to use these behemoths. Come on, keep us guys who only need the small stuff in mind too. Give us choices.
- Posted by: I. Ben Havin
Large screens used to be so appealing that I just had to try it. First up was a Leica 7″ CS25 with Windows 7 driving a Leica GS15, then a lighter but bigger screen Microsoft surface. Around this time I was beginning to get into a lot of mining related wetlands delineation work. Weaving a 4 wheeler through the woods, dodging trees all the while fighting and holding on to an oversized data collector finally made me see the folly of what I had been thinking was the ultimate. Getting on and off the 4 wheeler a couple hundred times a day was awkward and tiring too. And, in thicker areas walking and swinging a machete put the mobile computer at risk. With a good hard dose of reality and experience being the best teacher, now if I could find something the size of a wrist watch that would be a winner. For 2 or 3 years my larger controllers have been gathering dust. So, when I came to the realization Trimble would be forcing Access users to go to this monster platform it made me want to hit my head against the desk. I knew Trimble Slate with Access would be able to run the R10, that was going to be the one. Wrong, finding out Slate will not be able to run Access 2018 and beyond, Slate is a dying option, just as TSC3 is. You can only run non supported software for so long, and you quickly start losing out on the benefits of future GNSS firmware enhancements. Ideally, you want both the controller and the receiver to be on mutually supported and complementary systems. I already have a Leica GS18 with a CS20 controller, and that was already bigger than I wanted. Going bigger…see TSC7…was definitely not part of the plan. The primary reason I recently bought the R10 was because of Slate/Access. Seeing Access 2018 and beyond is not for Slate? I dunno. Where does someone who only needs a small controller go? Carlson? Definitely, Leica and Trimble both want to force you to use these behemoths. Come on, keep us guys who only need the small stuff in mind too. Give us choices.
I’m with you on that, even when not in the woods there is enough to deal with without having a larger collector. When the backpack was needed for the old 4000’s, the wires, batteries and the antenna would hit you in the head as you carried it all around, the collector was smaller. I guess that was the pinnacle for DC sizes. The DC then did everything but didn’t have much storage. Not sure getting bigger has much to do with that.
Something will probably replace the Slate at some point, give it some time. Trimble Dimensions and Intergeo are both coming up in a couple of months, these are typically the events where new products are announced. But again, much of the benefit of moving to Access 2018 is in having a large enough screen to display everything. Also, I’ve been in this industry a long time, and I seriously doubt that you’ll ever see a firmware enhancement for the R10 that will make it incompatible with Access 2017. What you will see at some point is the next generation of GNSS receiver that may or may not work with Access 2017, depending on when it comes out. But who knows what, or when that may happen.
We rented a R10 for about 6 weeks and I was running it with a new Ranger running Survey Pro. It was using VRS. It ran fine. Trimble owns the company now so I would hope it would run well.
We rented a Trimble S5 a month or so ago, and our local rep showed me the new Trimble TSC7 I guess it was. It is totally useless for the work we do, and would be torn up rather quickly. We run Spectra Precision Survey Pro, and regular total stations. We do not own a robot, and run Hiper V GNSS.
The big manufacturers need to understand that not everyone needs all the bells and whistles, but something that just plain works, and will not be any larger than the current version of the Ranger 3 units. Some of us still have to bust out through woods so thick you can’t see 10 feet in front of you, and cross ditches big enough to float a small ski boat.
I would really like a tiny DC, but I also like having the keyboard and that needs to be about the size of the TS3/TS2, so I guess I’m hard to please.
- Posted by: MightyMoe
I would really like a tiny DC, but I also like having the keyboard and that needs to be about the size of the TS3/TS2, so I guess I’m hard to please.
Have you ever seen the number of control switches they cram onto the center stick of a modern military fighter jet?
My “perfect like” would be a smart grip control on the rod for data entry or function selection. And a set of eyeglasses with blue-tooth “heads up” display to keep track things. I don’t even want no stinking keyboard. Give the device voice recognition so I can just tell the program whether it’s a traverse shot or whether it’s a tree or curb line, etc.
- Posted by: paden cashPosted by: MightyMoe
I would really like a tiny DC, but I also like having the keyboard and that needs to be about the size of the TS3/TS2, so I guess I’m hard to please.
Have you ever seen the number of control switches they cram onto the center stick of a modern military fighter jet?
My “perfect like” would be a smart grip control on the rod for data entry or function selection. And a set of eyeglasses with blue-tooth “heads up” display to keep track things. I don’t even want no stinking keyboard. Give the device voice recognition so I can just tell the program whether it’s a traverse shot or whether it’s a tree or curb line, etc.
I remember when the latest thing came out, the ACU.
It didn’t need cables, and was fairly small. It’s nickname was the box of knowledge. It had two issues that made everyone hate it, the keyboard had the old cell-phone system, press a button three times to get the C. And it had what looked like a steering wheel that housed a battery for it. It hooked directly onto the 5600 if I remember correctly.
But as a stand alone without the steering wheel the size was nice.
Despite being careful, unfortunately I am really experienced at breaking data collector screens.
And some of our junior staff seem to have NO respect for their gear.
I’d give the TSC7 less than a six month lifespan round here.
Thanks, but no thanks, Mr Trimble.
Lee,
From what I’ve seen the TSC7 is a wonderful piece of equipment…for those that need it for the kinds of work they do. I may even want one down the road, but for now I have no use for it. I just wish there was a Mini-Access 2018 ported to Slate or anything small, so we had a real choice, and yet something that received enhancements. I can appreciate Slate would not be capable of running the same software Trimble wanted to produce for Windows 10 devices, but I think for some people, perhaps the ones who would use a Slate/Access system, they would not be requiring the processing power to deal with high definition graphics, etc. I realize there are a considerable number who require and use F2F, and those who need lots of graphics in their field data collection. But, I think a lot of us just want to drive up to a job, get out and immediately start grabbing a dozen or 3 points, and then take it to the house for drawing it up. Personally, I don’t care to spend the extra time in the field…where it’s boiling hot or freezing cold…in order to leave with an “almost” finished drawing. May sound simple, but we still need a GNSS to work flawlessly while we’re taking those few shots. For me, even though its just a few shots here and a few shots there, I still want both the hardware and software to perform the best the manufacturer can make it, and that means up to date firmware and software.
Take a look at that link I posted to the revised Google “Glass EE” product. I think that has a place in surveying and data collection.
Ben,
I completely understand your point. I’m just saying that you may not need Access 2018, which might make the Slate a good tool for your needs. Access 2018 is made to be run on big screens, whereas Access 2017 is not. I of course have no idea what the future holds for the Slate – or anything else – but as I said earlier I don’t foresee a time when the R10 wouldn’t run with it due to firmware changes. What’s more likely, IMO, is that the next generation receiver will be introduced at some point and everything will be obsolete that’s out now (other than the TSC7, of course). I get that the TSC7 isn’t for everyone; if you had one in your hand and didn’t think it suits your needs that’s perfectly fair. But some of the comments that have been made based solely on looking at photos haven’t been particularly informed or fair. I’ve had it in my hand; it’s no different than the TSC3 – actually fits my hand better – other than the screen size, and that took me all of about 10 seconds to adjust to. It’s a little heavier – maybe half a pound – not enough to matter. The screen is Gorilla Glass; I don’t think it’s going to be that easy to break it. But obviously only time will tell. I will say that if you mount it on the pole it protrudes quite a bit further out than the TSC3, which I could see might be a problem in thick brush. The tools that differentiate 2018 from 2017 – for now – are only useful to Trimble power users; I really like 2018 but other than how it synchronizes data and the power of the map it really doesn’t do anything that 2017 can’t.
I thought Trimble was making the Access license available on it’s own now?….so couldn’t you put it on whatever tablet/controller/computer you wanted? As long as the it had the appropriate operating system?
As for the TSC7, the majority of our work is construction staking and layout. Windows mobile on the TSC3 is pretty underpowered for the complicated surfaces and roads we deal with. So the TSC7 has been a large improvement that way. No more crashes. The screen is also exponentially better in the direct sunlight, so the video function on our S7 robots has become way more useful. Having Windows 10 on the controller is easier for file transfers by email and bluetooth. Lots of our data is on the cloud, so now we can pull it from there right on to the controller. That’s also an advantage in our work flow.
Is it heavier and more awkward to carry than the TSC3? Sure. I won’t be throwing it over my shoulder and dragging it into the brush. But it does have it’s advantages and a place in our company. The only comparable alternative seemed to be a tablet and we’re not ready to give up the keyboard quite yet.
You can now buy a standalone version of Access and put it on any PC; for Access 2018 it has to be a Windows 10 PC. I guess in theory you could put it on a Windows 10 phone; it would be interesting to know if anyone has tried that.
When we tested a TSC7 we loaded it up with DXF, RXL, CSV files that were bogging down or outright killing the TSC3 and it passed with flying colors.
As a side query, where does the old CU controller fit into Trimble’s picture? The impression I’m getting is that Trimble is moving away from Windows ce and onto Windows 10. I’m hoping that an update to an on-board style controller is in the wood work as I’d prefer this style of controller when the old TSC2 keels over. I’d hate to see on-board controllers done away with altogether.
I don’t know if it’s out of habit on my part, but some of us prefer to not have to carry around a separate controller when doing a long traverse.
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