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Mentoring
Posted by dave-lindell on January 2, 2020 at 5:46 pmI got a request from someone I do not know asking to be her mentor. What do you suppose that entails? She says she found me on the internet. I wonder what her search parameters were.
She has a B.S. in Civil Engineering and other non-survey related degrees, but wants to be a surveyor.
Has anyone ever done this?
I suppose I could have her follow along as we survey, but I only work part time on easy jobs these days.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
a-harris replied 4 years, 4 months ago 11 Members · 10 Replies- 10 Replies
I know this is only partly related, but…
In Arkansas, to take the LS exam, you have to have a letter of recommendation, from 2 other pls’s in order to sit for the exam.
I got a call, asking me to provide a letter.
I said they had to work with me 1st. They had never worked with me. I guess they thought I’d lie for them.
I offered them to go work 1x a wk for a few weeks or months, so I could do this honestly. They declined.
If this person wants this genuinely, it can be good. If they are a little like some of the “Arkansas politics”, of the last 30 year’s, you could have a real nuisance after you.
I like to see others join the profession, who will be an asset. But, I’m afraid there are a percentage who “want the license, without the responsibility”.
One good surveyor is wonderful.
One bad surveyor, can clog the septic system with thousands of plats, that are not worth the paper they are printed on.
Carry on.
N
I don’t believe in mentors. You might as well call them narcissists. If a person is a qualified educator that has kept current then mentor away. Otherwise you are a charlatan.
You may be able to tell that I have had my share of bad experiences with “mentors” and, unfortunately was too young to realize that they were just egoists. Even some of my professors in college fell into this category.
I recommend that person get a broad experience rather than learn some second hand, old and possibly out-of-date knowledge. Joining the state society or national society and attending topical seminars would be my advice. Networking will get many different views and help in forming your own opinions and goals.
Historic Boundaries and Conservation EffortsSeems like sort of an odd “cold call” to me. Still, if you are inclined to entertain the request, perhaps you could suggest that she attend a local CLSA chapter meeting, where she might find some opportunities if your current practice is not a good fit? If she is willing to do that, it would seem that her intentions and goals are legitimate.
Some Universities offer distance learning. The student has to arrange a local mentor to oversee the labs. These are well-defined programs with specific goals. The ‘mentor’ gets a small stipend to recognize the effort. If that is what the newbie wanted one would hope they would explain it…
I think I would ask her what she expects. Does she want to shadow you? A paid or unpaid internship (how long, how often?)? An informational interview?
I’m just one of those evil GIS people. Bwah-hah-hah! Seriously, I do coordinate systems and transformations at Esri.It takes time and money to do mentoring. Essentially you are taking on an employee you do not strictly need and should compensate them for the value of their time. In other words you get less work done at greater expense. It is necessary for you to understand that before you begin. If you can afford that agreement then you should make sure the mentoree also understands it. It becomes much too expedient to tell someone to just do as I say or do it yourself, than to take the time to explain the what and why of the next task. Then comes the time you need to be extra patient as they do and/or figure it out themselves.
You say she is a CE, so start with finding out how much she has to first unlearn about surveying. I can think of at least a 1/2 dozens texts I would want her to understand and at least 3 college courses I would want her to pursue. Let us say your state wants at least 2 years field experience for the exam, explain to her, that can easily take her 4 or more years to acquire. Attendance at work is not necessarily work experience. My brother also a PE would explain it to others when reviewing their work experience, “You do not have 4 years experience, you have 1 year experience repeated 4 times. Too many cannot fully comprehend, what “increasing responsible charge means.”
Paul in PA
Several years ago I had a guy send me a letter wanting me to sign for him to take the exam in Wyoming. I had no idea who he was, the quality of his work, his character, his knowledge of surveying, etc. He later called me and expected me to sign for him as a “Professional Courtesy”. I told him that there was no way I would give him a recommedation as I had no idea who he was. He more or less became kinda irrate that I wouldn’t do this. Found out later that he’d been doing surveys without a license and his work left a lot to nbe desired.
One of the biggest problems we have in this profession is that we have such a random assortment of yahoos who were taught by someone who got their license and then never continued to learn, applying the same techniques and dispensing knowledge that eventually grew outdated and may have been flat-out wrong in the first place. There’s a reason it’s called “practicing” a profession rather than simply “doing a job”.
When I first began my career, I had a coworker who told me that I should stay no longer than three or four years at that firm, then go somewhere else and learn from another RPLS, then rinse and repeat until I had the skill set I wanted and was valuable enough to land the job I wanted. The boss disagreed and wanted me to stick around for the rest of my career.
It’s been fifteen years at six different outfits across four states and I wouldn’t have learned half of what I know now if I had listened to the boss. I also wouldn’t have learned that a few of my early coworkers/supervisors did some pretty shoddy work. Most critically, I wouldn’t have learned how little I actually know after all this time.
Mentorship doesn’t have to be anything more than regular discussions over coffee (or something stronger) concerning an agreed-upon topic between mentor and mentee. Ideally they would be structured and focused, so as to develop a particular skill or critical thinking, and end with a “homework assignment” for the next meeting. A good mentor will not speak in absolutes but will point their mentee toward sources of knowledge (whether they are individuals, books, courses, or jobs) and guide rather then lecture. The good ones know that they are not the only source of knowledge.
But mentorship does need to be regular, have a specific goal (i.e. pass an exam), and measure progress along the way.
“…people will come to love their oppression, to adore the technologies that undo their capacities to think.” -Neil PostmanAnyone with more experience than the mentee can be a mentor. Maybe a good one. Maybe a bad one. But, a smart person will learn from both.
Some things must be learned in the field. A prime example came up today. Seven years ago I had to breakdown a section. Today as I returned to five of the section corners I discovered new bars had magically appeared at two of them. These were two of the three corners that fall in the center of an old paved county road. The bars I found seven years ago were all over 12 inches below the surface, including the one in pavement that did not have a new bar appear. Adjacent to the new bars was evidence of digging to a depth of about three inches in both cases. We verified that the three places where new bars had not appeared (including the one in pavement that was 15 inches deep) were within a hundredth or two of our positions from seven years ago. The correct positions of the other two corners are very close to the center of where the shallow digging had occurred before setting bars to one side. Laziness (or profitability) seemed to become more important than doing the job correctly. A mentee witnessing such foolishness would hopefully learn a great deal.
I have mentored several surveyors over the years.
Hire them if you need another helper and teach them how you survey and extend to them to seek the answers to their questions before asking you for the answers.
Some of the people that worked for me learned and others quit. The ones that kept at surveying with me or at other places kept learning and a few got their license.
The ones that quit did so because they wanted an easy option to jump ahead of what they were qualified for. I’ve had two BS with a degree in Business come to work for me that expected to have their license in about 6 months. They had no commitment to surveying and only wanted the license to help their family business of Banking. They also had no desire to go back to college and get 34?ñ hours of Surveying that would lead them through their SIT training and get them ready to be qualified to apply for testing for their license. Then there was the Veteran that worked a few days, was ready to start surveying classes and quit because he did not want to invest his money upfront for the classes and be reimbursed 90 days later when the Veterans Administration was confident that his intentions were real.
Do not shy away from teaching a new generation the proper way to survey.
As Mr Schault always said, may he RIP, “If not the surveyor, then who”
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