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Topcon Machine Control – Radio Link Intermittent
Posted by send_it on July 8, 2017 at 5:33 amWondering if anyone’s had similar issues.
I’m running Topcon machine control – radio link will last from anywhere between 1-3 hours, then boom, radio is lost, the grader blade digs a 12″ deep crater in our grade and the automatics get turned off. Radio link will be down for any period of time up to 20 minutes, and comes back.
I’ve seen other folks have mentioned they’ve had issues with Topcon machine control radios and was curious if this is a common issue. Or maybe I’ve got some settings buggered up! Don’t think so though…. My Rovers are running fine.
david-livingstone replied 4 years, 11 months ago 10 Members · 26 Replies- 26 Replies
This does NOT sound like a radio issue. When radio is lost you get an autonomous position. Blade control would not be possible in autonomous.
It may be due to the recent CRITICAL UPDATE – Leap Second Firmware Update
All Topcon receivers MUST be updated to the latest firmware that is posted on the myTopcon product pages to address an upcoming Leap Second event. Without these firmware updates, your customers’ receivers will not maintain an RTK fixed solution.Based on previous years, the Leap Second event was announced on July 6, and then by July 19 satellites started to transmit the updated almanac. It is CRITICAL that all receivers be updated to the latest firmware immediately in preparation for the anticipated Leap Second event next month. To ensure that your customers’ receivers are updated with the latest firmware, visit the myTopcon product page.
We strongly encourage you to communicate this CRITICAL update to your customers immediately so that they don’t experience a loss in productivity. Your customers can log into myTopcon and download the latest firmware for their products.
.Thanks for the reply leegreen.
Not sure if I made it sound like we have blade control without radio, but we don’t. When the machine loses radio and goes from a fixed position to autonomous, at that point the blade reacts poorly, and makes a mess before the operator can take it out of auto (so he says), but certainly he doesn’t have blade control when we have no radio.
It’s definitively a radio problem, all receivers have the most recent firmware upgrades, so that shouldn’t be the issue either.
Thanks for the response tho, any other ideas? Been trouble shooting for about 10 days now!
Did you try checking the cables and antenna on the dozer. These are the most vulnerable parts of the system.
You bet, bought a new antenna and cable. Same problem persists.
Another gent on here mentioned he had experience machines losing radio link when his rovers wouldn’t, so I was curious if anyone else has had any experience with that same issue.
Have you used the topcons before leegreen?
Yes, I own lot’s of Topcon gear and I provide training/support for Topcon.
Are you using UHF or Spread Spectrum radios? Have you tried changing freq or channels?
Sounds like a bad radio, or interference.
Is this a new system? What dozer is it installed. What does you dealer say?
Using UHF Radios.
I’m transmitting from a Trimble base as well.
I’ve tried several different frequencies, protocols and broadcast format combinations.
The Grader is a 2 year old system with a GX 60 and MCR3. This unit is having the most prominent issues. Apparently there has been some issues with radio link breaking since day 1 and the company who owns it has set it aside for a year. Now I’m trying to trouble shoot.
We’ve had a new install on a Dozer a couple weeks ago – MCR3 and GX55. When the Grader loses radio link, the Dozer will flash in and out. But won’t stay broken like the Grader does.
I’ve had no issues with our Trimble or Topcon rovers our surveyors are using, only issue is with the machine radio link.
Any idea of what range is typical for these machines? I’m about 0.8 miles from the base, but have a repeater set up at 20W. I could run another mile with the rovers I’m surveying with easy.
Dealers been helpful trying to resolve the issue and sent a new antenna, but has nothing concrete. They’re pretty baffled as well.
Thanks again.
I’m no mechanic, but I do know someone whom installs this system and trouble shoots problems like this.
Where are you located?
Thanks for the offer Lee, I’ve been communicating with the guy from Brandt who did the most recent install and hes knowledgeable about the gear and settings etc. I was just curious if there’s been others with a similar problem.
I’m in Canada though, northern BC. I’ll get er sorted soon eh.
We were hiring a Topcon setup for a bit over a year back in 2013-14 and that was my only complaint about the system also. Topcon radios were temperamental at times, for no apparent reason, had two occasions in a 14 month period where the base and grader just refused to communicate. Support couldn’t figure it out either, just tried for hours to get it to work, I gave up, and it would miraculously work the next day following the exact same procedure.
I’ve had issues with Trimble bases dropping out and put my finger on the power supply. If you’re using an external source for the power, and it dies or disconnects intermittently then the base would shut down. An external connection seems to override the internal battery, meaning it won’t kick in while an external source is connected, whether it’s being fed or not. This may be just my bad luck so it don’t take it as gospel, just something to check next time it happens.
Thanks for the info,
There’s certainly an issue, but It seems like it’s just a quirk. It may be a bad radio, or interference like you mentioned Lee, but otherwise maybe something in the firmware of the GX. Still trouble shooting today…. Tightened up the distance between base and machines, also attempting a different broadcast format yet again. We’ll see how that goes.
I’m not sure if its related, but I’m having problems today also. I have a post down the page a little bit. We updated our firmware last Friday and have been having problems all day today. It seeems to me to be radio related but at this points, I’m not sure.
.
Narrowed my issue to a specific machine. Must be a bad antenna, cables or something in the software. Brandt is coming up next week to sort it out. Out of my hands at this point… Thanks for the help and recommendations.
Well, my assumptions proved to be wrong. The issue lied within the radio format, and GLONASS satellites usage – Topcon/Trimble compatibility, i think. The Topcon machines don’t seem to be acknowledging GLONASS on their primary antennas while the radio format is set to CMR+, even though the auxiliary antenna shows using GLONASS while still formatted to CMR+, the primary antenna does not. I’m guessing the CMR+ format was also the cause for the radio link breaking from time to time.
Change the format to CMR in the machines and all is good. That combined with my inexperience with the machine control interfaces themselves were the root of all my problems.
Godspeed
send_it, post: 436890, member: 12866 wrote: Well, my assumptions proved to be wrong. The issue lied within the radio format, and GLONASS satellites usage – Topcon/Trimble compatibility, i think. The Topcon machines don’t seem to be acknowledging GLONASS on their primary antennas while the radio format is set to CMR+, even though the auxiliary antenna shows using GLONASS while still formatted to CMR+, the primary antenna does not. I’m guessing the CMR+ format was also the cause for the radio link breaking from time to time.
Change the format to CMR in the machines and all is good. That combined with my inexperience with the machine control interfaces themselves were the root of all my problems.
Godspeed
The cuurent format or preferred protocol is RTCM3x.
CMR and CMR+ are older formats. Perhaps the Trimble cannot read RTCM3x??Send_it
BTW: Sure is nice up here in northeast Ontario. Temps was 48?øF this morning. No rain all week.
Certainly I prefer this over the 105?øF heat in California, when I was working there a few weeks.
I had heard that about RTCM3x, and the option to broadcast that format is an option with Trimble, and I did try this, however the machines wont initialize when I broadcast that format from my Trimble base, only from the Topcon. I’ll broadcast RTCM3x from my Trimble base, the machines show 100% radio and tracking plenty of sats, but won’t initialize for some reason.
48?øF sounds like the perfect temp for working! I think that’s cool for this time of year tho, unless your around Hudson Bay!
The newest and recommended format for Trimble (that I am aware of) is CMRx
It may be proprietary and not available to topcon receivers.JaRo, post: 436954, member: 292 wrote: The newest and recommended format for Trimble (that I am aware of) is CMRx
It may be proprietary and not available to topcon receivers.You are correct. Topcon not read CMRx. I have heard about problems with RTCM3 when using a Trimble base sending to Topcon. Not sure why.
Topcon firmware versions previous to 4.7 did not track Glonass properly when using the CMR+ format. This was a detriment to equipment that ran off a Trimble base. Topcon, in late 2015, reversed engineered that so they can properly track Glonass in the CMR+ format. This is from the 4.7 release notes:
- Support for Trimble CMR+* message (decoding of GLONASS)
But, when not using any Trimble equipment, RTCM 3.x is the preferred format. This is from a white Topcon Document I have. I can send the pdf to anyone interested, just PM. It was written before the 4.7 update. But this is what it summarizes.
The initial and sole reason for using Trimble??s CMR format was that it provided a lower
bandwidth than RTCM.
RTCM 3.0 not only offers lower bandwidth then CMR+, it is an open, industry standard
supporting GPS, GLONASS and network corrections. No surprises.
Trimble??s GLONASS observation extension to the CMR format remains proprietary.
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