Activity Feed › Discussion Forums › Strictly Surveying › “Not For Construction” Plans – Stake ’em or no?
“Not For Construction” Plans – Stake ’em or no?
Posted by ppm on July 31, 2019 at 5:18 pmI get so many plans, at least now days, that say “Not for Construction”. Sometimes that is all we get. Should a surveyor stake points calculated from this plan set?
The scenario I keep running in my head is:
(1) The architect or engineer puts this note on the map thinking “No one will build from it”.
(2) Then we, the surveyor, think “we are not constructing it (only staking it)”.
(3) Then the contractor thinks “if the surveyor staked it… it must be ok to build from.”
trimbleman replied 4 years, 7 months ago 25 Members · 36 Replies- 36 Replies
I wouldn’t. I prefer a hard copy set of construction prints that’s signed by the designing party AND approved by the local municipality or governing body.
One thing to keep in mind:
When I worked for a consulting firm we never removed the “NOT FOR CONSTRUCTION” note (or issued a signed set) until the client paid his bill in full. Keep that in mind. You may have been hired by someone that stiffed his design consultant….
Back when I did a lot of construction staking my contract specified that I would not begin any work without a full set of signed, sealed, and approved plans. Period. No Exceptions.
Or you get the For bid only set of plans
Don??t stake off them, you??re just asking for trouble. Sometimes even approved plans leave something to be desired ????????
Once got pushed by the office to just stake it. I marked my stakes ‘not for construction’ and left the cuts off. I then gave the PM my notes and told him he could provide cut sheets if he wanted.
I just did a job where there were no paper plans, everything was done in Revit. Also the design team was changing the plans daily.
I’ve done “Fast Track” jobs too. Of course back in those days we had to sign “pour sheets” before concrete could be placed. On the pour sheet I ALWAYS noted the date and revision number of the sheet involved.
Andy
I just download every version and added the dated it was changed to the file name.
If you stake from those plans, you may be responsible for costs to fix whatever was built from your stakes to meet the real requirements. Get somebody else’s signature to put them on the hook before proceeding.
.hell, back when i was forced to touch layout work i wouldn’t even stake off of final plans. anyone who’s ever done cursory forensics on the average CAD file used for plan sets knows there are all kinds of snags in there.
similar to what andy mentioned- i always made a habit of being in direct touch with whoever produced the final structurals, get (and date) their latest file, QC it myself, and only send a crew out (or go out) once i was convinced everything was hunky dory. everything that was staked would be cited to the latest revised and dated CAD file that i had neatly tucked into its place in order in the project file.
I’ve never staked anything off plans marked “not for construction” but have reviewed many during the proposal prep stage to come up with an estimate.
The last two posts make a good point. I’ve been on jobs that were so difficult or the engineering was so poorly done that major plan revisions were being made on the fly during construction and step 1 when arriving such jobsites was confirming you’re working off the latest revision planset. The key is do nothing without said planset and if it’s a major revision cry “Change in Scope”, “Restaking Required” with clear line item costs delineated in your contract. A decent Project Manager will make sure you’re in the loop concerning revisions because everything will get messed up if you stake last week’s plans and you can ding them for a restake.
Construction surveying is a dog eat dog world and as a subcontractor you’re a profit target for the prime contractor; don’t let them burn you. A solid line item contract is your best defense against changes. If the PM is an upfront player he’ll realize survey costs are chump change compared to the havoc of bad surveying; so he’ll include you in his inner circle. You can be proactive and point out obvious plan defects (storm drain pipes that go uphill is my favorite, cut slope grades that are way above max allowed by just laying a scale on the plans is second) and generally keep him in tune with the quality of his engineering plans.
Make it a give and take ‘sitch, for example if a drainage array is changed to two big inlets with grade changes in the road compared to the ridiculous 7 little inlets on nearly flat grades shown on the the original plans, and you haven’t staked the road or inlets, delete the 7 inlets staking from your proposal and only charge for the two. OTOH, re-slopestaking a bad cut to meet regulations, that’s on the PM and he should pay up and backcharge the engineering firm.
I worked for about three years doing construction staking exclusively and ultimately shied away from such work, except for easy curb and gutter staking, road and parking lot bluetops, building corners, simple stuff. There’s just too many developer predators out there whose sh*tty plans somehow become your problem instead of the engineering firm’s (which may be the same entity) to make it worth contracting with.
I gravitated to pure boundary work, where I am the prime contractor; it appears it’s the only niche where a licensed surveyor calls the shots and can be lucrative if you’re a local top of the line company.
Every stake project was under the terms that the contractor provided the plans and we staked from those plans whether they were right or wrong.
The word “not” means a lot. But judge, that is what they gave me…
So you are asking if you should stake for construction using plans marked NOT FOR CONSTRUCTION? Ask yourself that out loud.
There have been a few times where I tell my client, I need the approved plans, they say we dont have them but we are going to start construction next week and need you to mark it before we start. Most of the time I just call the company who did the plans ask for the approved plans and I get an email with the plans and CAD file. Then I send the approved plans to my client.
- Posted by: @ppm
I get so many plans, at least now days, that say “Not for Construction”. Sometimes that is all we get. Should a surveyor stake points calculated from this plan set?
Under no circumstances should you stake anything from plans unless they are properly signed and approved.
And… don’t forget that regardless of who says that it’s OK for you to use those plans: your liability insurance is highly unlikely to cover any claims arising from work that you did based on a planset stamped “NOT FOR CONSTRUCTION”.
Come on man, everybody’s doing it – don’t be a sissy – just stake it. ????
On this same note, as a courtesy to the other subs (and yourself) you might compare revision dates on the final plan sets you each have. I noticed the concrete contractor looking confused as I was leaving a job site once. When I got back to the office (shoulda done it on site) I gave him a quick call and asked him what the date was on his plans. Mine were the latest and greatest, but he was forever my biggest fan for helping him discover that he had been handed an outdated set. Saved him a lot of jackhammer work.
I stake from plans i receive from my client and mention the e-mail and filenames on my plan i handout to my client. If i were to wait for signed plans etc, nothing would happen.
Log in to reply.