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A Harris
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eapls2708

"I've been everywhere man"

That does not mean that I have surveyed out of my jurisdiction or want to survey sectioned areas in or out of Texas.

I managed an engineering company for many years and most everything was spelled out in a design book in a library. They never used common sense, it all came from a design book.

More than one person on Beerleg came from California and other states to Texas and tried surveying here and packed up and went back just as puzzled as they were on their very first survey gig.

I've had many helpers that surveyed in other states quit because it was more than they signed on for.

I have people from other states ask me all the time why does every surveyor around here do all that we do because they never did that in the state they came from.

Our own absent philosopher Kent will tell you that he does not want to cross the Trinity River any more than he has too.

You can tell an engineer's survey around here because it will show found monuments matching what is described in the deeds that fall over there and how far from the computed location they fall and never mention the witness and record monuments their own property deed has of record.

If not that it will state the same exact measurements from the original deed a century or more ago so the Title company won't have a problem with what is actually on the ground.

That is because engineers are mostly out of their element and ethically bound to leave boundary surveying to licensed surveyors that are trained for the job when the engineer is stepping outside their expertise.

That does not matter to an engineer because they have had at best 6 weeks of summer camp training on how to operate the machinery and measure and think they can.

Unless they have interned for years under a Texas Professional Registered Land Surveyor, they don't know. 

They have tried to get their license and usually fail because it goes against everything that makes them an engineer.

A person can not serve two different masters.

In most states, your surveying training is from a book and property monuments were rarely set until the last few decades. Individual tracts with small acreage monuments were some computed location relative to some section corner a long way from there. That is what an engineer would do.

In Texas, surveying is a lifestyle and our training only applies to Texas boundary surveying.

The recommendations that have been made to the Sunset Commission were not made by surveyors, they were made by politicians for a reduced number of government employees.

Texas surveyors have been able to pay our own way in this state without government funding and are the only agency that can make that claim.

You got to have lived out this last 50yrs of events in surveying in Texas in "living color" to even grasp what is at stake should things go south from where they are now and engineers gain control.

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thebionicman
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That is the longest post I've ever read with almost nothing correct in it.

There is nothing more or less difficult about surveying in Texas, or any other State for that matter.

I did learn quite a bit about surveying from books, but most from 4 decades doing it. That may not be an exceptionally long time to many surveyors. It is worth noting that in that time I've surveyed MO, IL, NY, TN, KY, AL, GA, OR, UT, NV, ID, WA and Texas. Those are the ones I recall off the top of my head. All of them had monuments set regularly more than 'a few decades ago'.

Also in that time I've met some incredible boundary surveyors, some of which were excellent Engineers. It's not 'serving 2 masters'. It's learning 2 professions. Some people do it real well.

I sincerely hope the best for our surveying brethren in Texas. If you look around after the decision is made the sky will probably be blue (and still above)...

 

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A Harris
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thebionicman

I do not believe that you are in tune with boundary surveying in Texas any more than I would be at home in the military, so try and stay in your own lane.

The fact that you passed thru some portion of Texas and made some measurements does not put you in any position to act as monitor to what I have followed and seen in 50yrs of being here and bear witness to.

For years and with many of the same people that visit and share here, the same talk about the difference between a surveyor and an engineer and an architect and a cartographer and a technician and  anyone else that has pulled a chain before to be thinking they can do each others job better than the person that holds a license in that field has been tossed around and from all parts of this nation and others everybody has had a story to share in telling of some rogue crew muddying up the surveying pond.

All these non licensed surveyors doing business across the nation are not having their work stamped by an ethical surveyor. The ones I've known of were under the wing of an engineer that is not bound by oath as to ethics concerning boundary surveying or a surveyor with no sense of their sworn ethics.

The basic part of measuring is the same all around the world, it is the laws and principals are what differs from in Texas and that of the rest of the world.

Since I began surveying great strides have been made by our Board to reign in and define what it demands of licensed boundary surveyors and with the passing of laws that require surveyors to gather their CEUs in order to renew puts us on notice that when we meet and talk out and ask questions about the ideas of others, we become better or we get left behind.

I do not want the door to be opened where another untrained crew with a truck full of  some surveying technology will be out there trying to do boundary surveying.

In no state has any Board got it all right on their first outing and after all this time are still trying to get what they need thru the right people in charge of making the laws needed for all this to be in check.

It is also no time for anyone to begin writing out what is in place in order to let in an entire group of non boundary educated engineers to be in control of boundary surveyors without holding dual licenses and that is not a requirement that engineers want.

This started 30+ years ago when engineers ask the Texas Legislature to abolish the Surveyors Act and terminate the license of every surveyor and out of those ashes rose the Sunset Commission that meets every 7 years to hear from every group they act as over watch of and to send on their recommendation to the Senate to decide or ignore.

It is politics that has very little to do with what is best for anyone, especially what would be best to serve the public interest. All the present ideas are from lobbyists who have been working year round for the last 7 years to encourage the panel that their group has an equal place at the table and as it stands at present, the surveyor is fighting for an equal voice.

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thebionicman
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What you believe is irrelevant. What 'is' matters. I completely agree that measurement science is a small component of boundary surveying, though I stop short of apologizing for being good at it.

The reality is, Texas surveying is not magic. Like any place else you need to learn the law and history. At the end of the day the process is the same for every jurisdiction and geographic area.

We can exchange snippets all day long but one fact remains. If the sunset commission gets its way you will have to deal with it. Part of that will be learning to have a conversation with an engineer. Being dismissive and insulting probably won't help.

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Scott Ellis
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I am always amazed that Surveyors who have multi license in just PLSS states think that just because they can Surveyor in several States it makes them an expert on Texas Surveying.   

Really it's like the kid who in 8th grade read a Junior level book, wrote a book report on it and got an A in the class, then he used that same book report for 9th, 10th, 11th and 12th grade. Then he gets to College tries to use the same report and the Professor says this is College you need to read a more advance book maybe even 4 or 5 for a report in this class.  Sure that kid can tell you everything about that one book, but has no clue about the prequel. Or they just read the cliff notes about the prequel and think they understand it.

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thebionicman
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And again, a miss.

I never claimed to be an expert Texas Surveyor, but I did live and work there long enough to know it isn't any more difficult than any other place. 

If you end up being governed by a joint board you will need to have a realistic view of Texas surveying. It is an honorable pursuit on par with any other profession, but selling it as some mystic realm suited only for gods will get you nowhere...

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R.J. Schneider
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Posted by: thebionicman

I never claimed to be an expert Texas Surveyor, but I did live and work there long enough to know it isn't any more difficult than any other place. 

I'm just looking at that, thinking there is a term for arguing the exact meaning of a word, while losing the context or argument in which it was offered.

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