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New Mexico Eliminates Professional Licensure???
Posted by sreeserinpa on October 18, 2018 at 4:09 pmI have been hearing about this thru various sources, honestly I am somewhat confused and hope that someone from New Mexico can explain what the real end result for surveyors in the state. It does not immediately effect me on the east coast, BUT this could become a trend to the future….
https://www.abqjournal.com/1228841/governors-order-no-license-needed-for-many-occupations.html
https://ij.org/press-release/new-mexico-governor-orders-major-overhaul-of-states-licensing-laws/
Looking forward to the opinions of others on this board, but most specifically hoping to hear from someone in the know in New Mexico.
aliquot replied 5 years, 6 months ago 19 Members · 24 Replies- 24 Replies
Well, make the argument for licensure. How does licensure of Surveyors benefit the public? I don’t think it should be too hard. Licensure of Barbers, Beauticians and Manicurists, maybe not so much.
That story was sent out to the TAPS (TN Association of Professional Surveyors) the other day.
Here is my response.
This is a direct result of the increased licensing requirements in this country. In the past few decades there are many jurisdictions that require a license to arrange flowers, pick out curtains, massage a horse, shampoo hair and whiten teeth. Too many of us see an attempt to get rid of such ridiculous regulations as an attack on the surveying profession. It’s not, and if we marry ourselves to the defense of these other licensing boards, we’ll go down with them. There is a valid and defensible reason we are licensed. The same cannot be said for the licensing of hair shampooers and flower arrangers.
Tommy I agree 100% with that. And the article said that it doesn’t apply to professions that require licensure by state statute, so I doubt if it will affect surveying anyhow.
I was at a symposia in Mexico all of last week. I know from past experience that engineers in Mexico are “licensed” when they graduate from an accredited university. I spoke to a CE from El Salvador who is in charge of the control network in that country (I have done several jobs in El Salvador), she also said that when she graduated from a university, that was all she needed to practice. So the bottom line is there once you have a degree, you are an engineer. In many jurisdictions here in the US you are not allowed to use the word engineer or surveyor unless you are licensed, even if you have a degree, which is BS to me. As long as you don’t say that you are a licensed engineer or licensed surveyor, you should be able to use that term.
Mr. Glen Thurow, who is on the New Mexico Board of Licensure for Professional Engineers and Professional Surveyors, addressed this on a video chat with the Surveying students at New Mexico State University. Very interesting, the complete video is about 45 minutes.
After the Oregon decision, many states began treating ‘Professional X’ as the protected term.
As for foreign credentials, many countries use a model similar to Mexico. The accreditation of universities is a more robust process. I just watched a mock debate between the two models. It was apparent that both had value, but no good case exists for changing systems once the choice is made..
- Posted by: John Hamilton
I was at a symposia in Mexico all of last week. I know from past experience that engineers in Mexico are “licensed” when they graduate from an accredited university. I spoke to a CE from El Salvador who is in charge of the control network in that country (I have done several jobs in El Salvador), she also said that when she graduated from a university, that was all she needed to practice. So the bottom line is there once you have a degree, you are an engineer. In many jurisdictions here in the US you are not allowed to use the word engineer or surveyor unless you are licensed, even if you have a degree, which is BS to me. As long as you don’t say that you are a licensed engineer or licensed surveyor, you should be able to use that term.
There are more than a few countries, other than the US, that consider graduation from the “government-sanctioned” educational program as the requirements to become licensed. One thing that should be understood is that most foreign degree programs are not accepted, in their entirety or in part, by the majority of the US-based licensing boards due to the lack of social sciences, good or bad. Based on all the foreign degrees I’ve reviewed, most are far more technically complex in terms of the technical aspects of the coursework than the US education systems.
- Posted by: Ric mooreOne thing that should be understood is that most foreign degree programs are not accepted, in their entirety or in part, by the majority of the US-based licensing boards due to the lack of social sciences, good or bad.
Note to self: Thankfully, a requisite course of my geological engineering degree required a term paper comparing and contrasting existentialism with utilitarianism (not to be confused with uniformitarianism).
Upon reflection, the paper would have been more interesting if I contrasted existentialism with uniformitarianism.
??New Mexico Eliminates Professional Licensure????
They tried that stunt in FL several years ago, the Realtors and Title Companies had it thrown out. Our State Society took partial credit because of their ??wonderful? PAC committee but really had no influence whatsoever.
- I hope everyone has a great day; I know I will!
I have read the executive order issued by the Guv and its main thrust appears to be acceptance of professional and occupational licenses issued by other states, as long as such acceptance doesn’t run afoul of New Mexico state statutes or create safety issues. Medical licensure isn’t included in the executive order. Here’s a copy of the press release.
From what I gather, the intent was to make it easier for licensed blue collar trades, like barbers and cosmetologists, to set up shop in New Mexico when coming in from another state in which they were licensed. Not a big deal. However, for some reason the order included professional licenses like architects, engineers and surveyors.
It does include wording that would allow unlicensed individuals to provide services, normally requiring licensure, if the customer/client signs off on it, knowing the provider is unlicensed. Again, this seems to be intended for mostly personal services. Professional trades, like engineering and surveying, fall under other statutes that require such licensing to perform those services, like submittal of survey maps for recordation.
But hey, if you’re a licensed surveyor in just about any state, it looks like you’ll be welcome to work in New Mexico.
The trent to cut jobs and manpower in government began a couple decades ago.
Many state required actions and reporting were delegated from a dozen people to only one or two people accomplishing those actions.
The same was done to the different agencies overseeing actions of many projects and personell that were cut and delegated to one agency with a couple workers taking care of the multiple actions.
All this did was to reduce manpower and spending those incomes somewhere else in the governmental machine.
Many people are multitasking and if you call a government office and nobody answers it is because they are too busy to answer the phone and rely upon messages.
If you visit an office and can’t get in the door, it is because no one is there to let you in, they are spread out across their system or on the road to get things done.
The government also did the same thing to all the different different professioonals, they were put on a list and the lists were given to some branch of the government to oversee and keep up with collecting licensing fees and to come up with new reasons to collect more monies to run the now undermaned government that for some reason continues to insist upon a higher budget each year.
I try to understand what they are saying and how they are going to fix thing yet I continue to hear blah, blah, blah………….
- Posted by: OtherHand
But hey, if you’re a licensed surveyor in just about any state, it looks like you’ll be welcome to work in New Mexico.
I see no reason as to why this is not the issue nation wide. I support licensure 100%. I think that if I am granted a PLS in one State I should be able to practice in any State – however, it is my own responsibility to know, understand and follow that State’s requirements.
So you’re telling me I can start to Survey in New Mexico – Sweet!
0.02
- Posted by: StLSurveyorPosted by: OtherHand
But hey, if you’re a licensed surveyor in just about any state, it looks like you’ll be welcome to work in New Mexico.
I see no reason as to why this is not the issue nation wide. I support licensure 100%. I think that if I am granted a PLS in one State I should be able to practice in any State – however, it is my own responsibility to know, understand and follow that State’s requirements.
So you’re telling me I can start to Survey in New Mexico – Sweet!
0.02
The interstate portability of licenses is not universal, nor should it be.
State A has no control over the licensing process in State B. The survey system, constitution and laws of those states varies as well. Then you have the problem of jurisdiction over people you don’t license.
Many states are starting to remove barriers to license portability where it fits. In Nevada, your approved application gets you Wyoming. In Idaho, standard applications are staff approved and the state exam is mailed to the applicant. The list goes on.
I suspect the improvements will continue, but interstate licensure is unlikely to happen in our lifetimes…
Hope this is just a lot of hot air.
The case for licensure has always been not about ability but accountability. The public needs some assurance of competence, and recourse if they’ve been harmed.
Unlike a lot of trades, a mistake in survey affects others, like the adjoiner, not just the person who hired the surveyor.
- Posted by: StLSurveyorPosted by: OtherHand
But hey, if you’re a licensed surveyor in just about any state, it looks like you’ll be welcome to work in New Mexico.
I see no reason as to why this is not the issue nation wide. I support licensure 100%. I think that if I am granted a PLS in one State I should be able to practice in any State – however, it is my own responsibility to know, understand and follow that State’s requirements.
So you’re telling me I can start to Survey in New Mexico – Sweet!
0.02
Well, not just yet, but likely soon. The executive order was a direction to the state’s licensing boards to “make this happen”, but setting it all up will take a little time. A possible wildcard is that the governor who issued the order, Martinez, is termed out and will be leaving office in January. Whoever ends up replacing her could conceivably rescind the order. That said, there doesn’t appear to be any controversy associated with the order and seems to be generally viewed as a good thing, to aid in the establishment of blue collar trade businesses by new comers to New Mexico.
“..and seems to be generally viewed as a good thing, to aid in the establishment of blue collar trade businesses by new comers to New Mexico.”
I suppose I don’t have to understand that. Is it just new tax revenue they’re looking to generate ? I read a news story, some time back, where Minnesota or Wisconsin was granting free land to anyone who would relocate and start a new business.
No matter what happens. I still support that State Specific 2 hour exams. I just hate applying over and over to each state. I just think that once you are licensed and pass the PS exam you should be able to apply to sit for the 2 hr exam in any State in the Union. You pass, you play. Varying level of acceptance for each state is what is so stupid. Just make it a 4 year degree nation wide and be done with it. I get that each state has different laws, statutes etc. – I’m licensed in 4 States. But we can study and know those – it’s not rocket surgery.
Well, it now appears this is unlikely to happen.
The Department of Regulation has reported back to the Guv’s office that only a small part of what she wanted done could be accomplished via executive order. The bulk of the changes she requested require modifications to existing state statutes and thus need legislative approval. Given that the legislature is part time with more important fish to fry, it seems likely this may just fade away. Newspaper story about it here.
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