[Solved] Ongoing Survey
First let me say that I'm not a surveyor. I didn't read any rules against posting here, but I know it is mostly surveyors posting. Hoping to get some guidance with a messy situation we have going on.
We had a surveyor come out last year and mark our property lines. He seemed very knowledgeable and marked everything based on our pins he was able to locate. We were aware it was not a legal survey, and was cheap as a result. We just needed a general idea since we moved in and neighbors didn't know for sure. This surveyor could not locate one corner post, but advised where it should be near based on calculations.
A couple of months ago I sent a check for the deposit to get the legal survey started. In the meantime, our neighbor hired a survey who came out and surveyed the line between us and said neighbor. He did not survey or mark the whole property, just this one line. Last week he came and marked control points which were almost identical to where our surveyor marked. However, this week he came and moved pins that now say "property line" over about 20 feet on our side of the property. Their surveyor also replaced the pin in the road which was the neighbors true point of beginning, and the pin that our surveyor couldn't locate during the first run. It is over much further on our side than expected based on previous conversation with our surveyor, which I believe is accounting for the shortage per the deed. My husband and I got out our measuring tape and tried measuring out where their property line is, but it shorts our deed by about 20 feet in width all the way back the the back marker (this line is 728 feet back).
My husband is a mechanical engineer, I am an accountant. We aren't trying to say that the other surveyor our neighbor hired is wrong, but we want to understand mathematically.
I wouldn't be worried but now we have fencing on "their property" and the neighbor is being extremely hostile towards us. Our surveyor is currently reaching out to theirs to (i assume) mitigate the differences, but I'm just wondering what to expect. All the surveyors we spoke with made it seem like it was more of an ordeal to replace a property corner, and we would be notified beforehand.
Since you "sent a check for the deposit to get the legal survey started", I would let the 2 surveyors figure out where your common line is, then have your Surveyor fully explain it to you. They should know your local laws and practices.
Relax..no one gets out alive!
So you hired a cheap "Surveyor" who sounded like he knew what he was doing, to give you an idea where your property line is, now that the property line moved 20 feet, you are no longer happy with going cheap?
As One cup o joe said, let the License Surveyor you just hired figure it out. If the first "Surveyor" did not give you a stamped surveyor, his opinion on where the property line is, well you could have hired anyone to show up and say hey this looks like the property line.
What State are you in? Each State has its own Boundary Laws.
There are any number of reasons a line can be different than what you expect. Let the two Surveyors put their heads together and see what they come up with. In the meantime...
I'm not sure what State you are in. There arent any I know of that allow 'cheap and unofficial' surveys. The spot you are in is exactly why. There really is no point in talking down to you for not knowing that. Many Surveyors havent figueed it out either.
At the end of the day you and your neighbor are the ones who will fix the problem. Don't let Mr. Cheap n Easy put you in a spot where you both drain your resources only to live next to somebody you now hate. You were living with the fence before the surveyors got there. Sit down and work it out.
CFedS, PLS ID-OR-WA-UT-NV
The reason is you are basing your distances from a Survey that is not signed or Stamped, and maybe the neighbor has a signed survey maybe they don't maybe he put the corner in the road. Ask to see a copy of their Survey. Until you get a signed Survey you will just have to wait and let your Surveyor answer your questions.
I do not know any License Surveyors who would do a Survey and not sign it, that should be a red flag. I would hired a Surveyor who would do it right the first time.
Why do you say that the fence is in their property. Did you place the fence based on the first survey? I am not an Indiana surveyor, but most states have some legal standing for an existing fence. The neighbor should not damage your fence until the dispute is resolved. Notify him, if not on your property you will relocate the fence.
I am not licensed in Indiana nor am I familiar with the local laws. This is just my quick thoughts before coffee.....
The problem you are dealing with, unfortunately is somewhat common though. I would suspect that your land and the adjoiner tract are somewhat related, meaning that, perhaps they were once one large tract but cut into two. When this happens Junior and Senior rights will come into play. Hypothetical...If you have a deed that claims you own 2 acres and you then sell me one acre. I then hire out a surveyor to stake the acre you sold me. Upon the field survey it is discovered that you never owned 2 acres but instead 1.75 acres, then you keep the one acre and I (Junior rights) gets what I get regardless.
I would closely exam your "legal" survey once it is delivered and read your deed closely, and pull your neighbors deed and read it, pay attention to the dates. First in time first in rights.
You also have some other items your surveyors should consider....the existing fence and the fact that both parties were accepting it as a boundary line before some new stakes showed up. The way it is constructed (improvements out - facing your property) leads me to think he built the fence. If so, why put the fence 20 feet onto himself?
Time for some coffee...
Professional Surveyor - MO, AR, KS, KY
sUAS Certified Pilot
@stlsurveyor are you sure your hypothetical says what you intended?
So many things it could be. So many details we don't know. So easy to speculate. But I suspect that in the course of his more thorough work the 2nd surveyor found some previously unknown document buried in the record, not mentioned in your deed description, that moved the boundary by the 20 feet.
It happens like this - Owner A and Owner B buy adjoining property, each getting a deed with a land description in it. 20 years later A sells B a 20 foot strip, giving B a deed describing that 20 foot strip. The deed gets recorded. Another 20 years pass, and A's heir sell their property. They pull out the deed A received when he bought 40 years previously and copy the old description into the new deed (maybe they don't even know about the 20 foot sale, maybe they just forgot). Owner A2 gives the deed they just got to their surveyor, who does a quick survey without doing a really thorough search of the record - that takes time and costs money and this is a cheap and quicky survey. He doesn't know that the 20 foot deed exists. He finds pins in accordance with the deed he has in hand. He doesn't even know to look for newer pins 20 feet over and maybe there aren't any. But that 20 foot deed still exists and is still valid, and when a more thorough search of the record turns it up that surveyor comes out and moves his new pins.
That could be, or somebody could have screwed up. Could be a lot of things. I'm speculating. Get the real scoop from the guys on the job.
EDUCATION, n. That which discloses to the wise and disguises from the foolish their lack of understanding.
EXPERIENCE, n. The wisdom that enables us to recognize as an undesirable old acquaintance the folly that we have already embraced.